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# More PC stupidity13

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## More PC stupidity

### RE: More PC stupidity

Definition of Politically Correct..."The missaprehension that it is possible to pick up a t^&d by the clean end!"

Mark Hutton

### RE: More PC stupidity

I suppose that T^&D is "turd".  Why can't we say a word that denotes a mass that everyone sees most every day?

David

### RE: More PC stupidity

On the other hand...

I was pleased to notice recently that the Beeb's commentators have stopped calling female athletes "girls".

- Steve

### RE: More PC stupidity

3
Commentator Eddie Waring: "Ai, She's a big girl."

### RE: More PC stupidity

surprised they didn't pick on "tarred with the same brush" ... loaded with PiC nuance but not racist.

### RE: More PC stupidity

That's ridiculous...

People are morons. And many times, people hold positions of power and influence. Ergo, the phrase "right hand man" is banned by morons in power.

### RE: More PC stupidity

2
What will manholes be called?

### RE: More PC stupidity

I'm fairly PC myself but that's just stupid.  Not every occasion of dark vs. light has to do with skin color.  Most of those expressions come from the notion that sunlight is a good thing and lack thereof is frightening, so light/dark became a metaphor for good/bad.

@KENAT:  That's the problem.  A lot of the time people will say "girls" where they wouldn't say "boys", they'd say "men".  And that, me boy, is sexist.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

### RE: More PC stupidity

"Manhole cover" == "Personnel access flange"

Which I think sounds more racey anyway.

- Steve

### RE: More PC stupidity

I used to scoff at the "manhole" type issue, but came around.  Turns out that use of sex-specific language really does influence people's attitudes, and there's research data to back that up.

I still say "manhole" for lack of a ridiculous alternative, but prefer "chair" to "chairman", and often avoid sex-specific language when I can.  For the most part, it's not hard, and can be done without sounding silly.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

### RE: More PC stupidity

I'm pretty sure I've heard 'boys' used in sports commentating.

Like I said though, being an Anglo Saxon Male I'm probably not going to relate to the offensiveness of some of these terms.

On a lot of this stuff maybe the way things are ain't quite right/fair but I can't help thinking there are bigger things to worry about.  Then again, I'm sure that some 'research' somewhere will show that those 'bigger things' have their roots in the discrimination inherant in the English Language or some such twoddle.

Oh, and what happens in languages like French & Spanish where lots of things are inherently male or female?  Are we going to make them re-write their grammar books to make everything gender neutral?

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at posting policies: http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
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### RE: More PC stupidity

I like the overall message that any phrase using white or black as suggestions of good or bad must be banned because it could be suggestive of skin color.

So what will the financial world do, when we extend that to cover 'in the red' and 'in the black' as offensive.

What about traffic lights?  Isn't red = stop racist simply by suggestion?

### RE: More PC stupidity

With French or Spanish, there's nothing that can be done.  With English, there is a choice.  And the choice to use a sex-specific term when a neutral one is available does send a message.  No one can force you to care whether you're sending the message, but the message is there.

On another subthread, perhaps in the UK/Commonwealth sports commentators talk about "boys".  In the US, I've never heard "boys" used for athletes past high school age.  I'm fine with "girls" used in the same context as "boys".  It's when it's "girls" and "men" that I start to grit my teeth.  (Except in Olympic gymnastics; then I'm gritting my teeth for other reasons.)

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

### RE: More PC stupidity

If you want to start getting silly KENAT, consider "das Mädchen" in German.

I'm with HgTX.  Calling athletes "girls" is insulting.

- Steve

### RE: More PC stupidity

2
hokie66,

A few years ago, Atlantic Magazine asked P.J. O'Rourke to review a manual on political correctness.  I found it here, in PDF format.

Enjoy!

JHG

### RE: More PC stupidity

I find it frustrating that "-man" is always seen as sexist, when that was not the original meaning of the term.
From http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=man
man (n.)
O.E. man, mann "human being, person," from P.Gmc. *manwaz (cf. O.S., O.H.G. man, Ger. Mann, O.N. maðr, Goth. manna "man"), from PIE base *man- (cf. Skt. manuh, Avestan manu-, O.C.S. mozi, Rus. muzh "man, male"). Sometimes connected to root *men- "to think" (see mind), which would make the ground sense of man "one who has intelligence," but not all linguists accept this. Plural men (Ger. Männer) shows effects of i-mutation. Sense of "adult male" is late (c.1000);

"Good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor." - Robert Hunter

### RE: More PC stupidity

It isn't the words, it is the attitudes behind them.
Give two people a word and tell one to use it as a pejorative and the other to use it as a non-pejorative and see what happens.

Thus if you take your average bigot and condition him to use only approved terms and I'll bet anything you like he can still manage to offend those he/she/it wishes to offend.
Then again, there are some people who will be offended by just about anything you say or do or what words you use.

The presumption is that prejudice is in the words and not the person.

All this effort is a distraction and may ultimately do more harm than good because it doesn't address the problem.

### RE: More PC stupidity

So now mankind does not include women, boys, and girls?
Neil Armstrong may have to go back to moon and rephrase his sentence!

Rafiq Bulsara
http://www.srengineersct.com

### RE: More PC stupidity

"And the new World champions are ..."

"In the girls' race, America are looking good"

- Steve

### RE: More PC stupidity

The problem with all this as I see it is we all end up walking around on egg shells, frightened to say or do the wrong thing, even if nothing bad is intended.

Take jmw post above he says "Thus if you take your average bigot and condition him to use only approved terms and I'll bet anything you like he can still manage to offend those he/she/it wishes to offend." Surely the condition him should read condition them as the condition him is in itself sexist, although I am sure that was not his or should that be their intention.

The boys and girls debate is interesting, if you listen to post match interviews in sport at least in the UK the person will often say something like the boys/ girls put up a great performance as a positive thing, but a one sided match will also be described as men against boys. I live about 50 miles from London and the term boy is one that denotes a friend, much like mate or buddy, but travel to London and it is a put down.

Racism is even deeper, Paki is seen as a derogatory term but Aussie or Pomme a friendly one, how is that?

Whilst I don't agree with any form of discrimination, I am not sure having to think about every phrase you use is the way forward either.

### RE: More PC stupidity

"It was intended that when Newspeak had been adopted once and for all and Oldspeak forgotten, a heretical thought...should be literally unthinkable, at least so far as thought is dependent on words."

### RE: More PC stupidity

(OP)
I didn't watch it.  To me, the whole show has always been in poor taste and not very funny.  It is certainly irreverent and politically incorrect.  But racist?  I think not.  I think Aussies will continue to do their own thing with comedy, the rest of the world be damned.

### RE: More PC stupidity

I saw it, thought it was C**P, both for the PC and just because it was C**P. Might have been funny 20 years ago, but definitely not today. RED should have given them the dong within the first few seconds.

Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling with a pig in mud. After a while you realize that them like it

### RE: More PC stupidity

to aspsix

I may be remembering incorrectly, but I'm sure that the whole "baa baa black sheep" story was exposed some time ago as being very misleading.

I was aware of one nursery who had added some extra verses to the song as a means of teaching the children the colours, they didn't stop singing Black, and nobody asked them to either. This was then widely reported in the press as some sort of pernicious influence of the shadowy PC brigade - the irony being that the coverage was so widespread that they may have even convinced some other schools that they should have been doing this too.

### RE: More PC stupidity

Good points, Richkeogh.

I was going to post a link to a Richard Littlejohn article in the Daily Mail which reported that a certain police force was muzzling its big dogs and going to switch to spaniels from Alsations because Alsations are too aggressive, but desisted until I could check it out.

Now, given the current stupidities of the UK police forces and the PC environment generally, this is all too easy to believe.

However, a little internet searching revealed the true story to be that a police force in North Wales was only going to muzzle its general purpose Alsations when used for rescue work and would be acquiring three spaniels exclusively for rescue work in future.

It seems criminals need not expect to be tracked by muzzled spaniels but by the open jawed, sharp toothed, aggressive salivating Alsations as usual.

Littlejohn forgot to mention the bit about rescue work and you can understand, as one commentator put it, that a young child lost in the Welsh hills might be somewhat alarmed by the sudden appearance of the wolf-like Alsation, all teeth and noise but comforted by a tail wagging, wriggling, eager to please spaniel.

It really would be nice if there was some code of journalistic excellence that prevented all this misleading reporting but if there were and if they abided by it, they'd all be out of jobs.

### RE: More PC stupidity

richkeogh

My wife taught infants in London in the 90's, she is my source, not the media.

I do agree that reports in the media may be written to sensationalise otherwise unexciting news, and I suspect that may be an understatement.

### RE: More PC stupidity

Last night Andrew Neil, the presenter on the BBC's political comment programme This Week informed us viewers that the Warwickshire constabulary had released guidence for the policemen and women saying that they couldn't use the words "evening all" and such like because the person being spoken to might not understand the concept of afternoon, evening, morning etc.

### RE: More PC stupidity

Another police force has just had an 'elf and safety missive warning them about cold in winter, wet leaves in autumn etc.
It was not well received.

### RE: More PC stupidity

Our local Keystone Cops issues a elf and safety for Halloween Trick or Treating which was for the most part well intentioned.  Things like warning drivers about kids benig hard to see, jumping into the road, crossing at haphazard locations but what irked me was the comments in the last few paragraphs.  They explained how you shouldn't allow your kid to have all the candy at one, and should distribute it as snacks over the coming days.  I am sorry, but if my pride and joy wants to scoff his arsenal of candy down and puke his brains out after, that's his prerogative and my failing as a father for allowing him to do it.  But it's nothing to do with the coppers.  Ok, I am off the soapbox now.

drawn to design, designed to draw

### RE: More PC stupidity

I got one of those joke e-mails yesterday that contained a patently racist joke.  This was from a business contact of mine.  A year ago he would never have sent it.  Today it didn't bother him to send it.  I think the difference is that before the last election we were all so afraid of being called a racist that few people were willing to risk any marginal behavior.  After a year of being called racists by the administration for daring to disagree with them, and increasing number of people have stopped caring.

I heard a report from the Army this weekend that said flat out that PC language was a significant contributor to the Ft Hood shooter staying under the radar.  And that they can already see the erosion of PC language.

Maybe it is on the way to its death.

David

### RE: More PC stupidity

@graham, "gordon bleeding bennett" ... pun not intended ?

@waidesworld, maybe if the police are giving you parenting advise, that allows you to give them policing advice ??  somehow, i suspect that they wouldn't get the subtlity.

### RE: More PC stupidity

I was watching American football yesterday and a player with the ball fell on his arse after making a catch.  The announcers spent the next 2 minutes (with several replays) questioning out loud if it was OK to use the word posterior to describe what part of the player hit the ground first.  What a terrible waste of airtime.

drawn to design, designed to draw

### RE: More PC stupidity

Waidesworld - I note that you used the more polite "arse" than the normal one we would all say . . .  Half of the stuff the commentators say is a terrible waste of airtime!

### RE: More PC stupidity

I'm sorry, but those guy's job is to ensure that there is never any dead air.  They could make farting noises and provide more information than you can get from their inane jabber, but at the end of the day they are just doing what they're getting paid to do.

David

### RE: More PC stupidity

I'd rather listen to their blather than watch the same commercial for the umpteenth time.

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."

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### RE: More PC stupidity

No BigH, arse is the rude one, ass is the polite one.

Obviously depending where & when in time and space you are.

As for inane sports commenator twaddle, perhaps the ultimate:

http://www.johnners.com/

Summers really aren't the same without him.

Posting guidelines FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm? (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?

### RE: More PC stupidity

While we're on the topic of supidity, it appears the Royal Navy has been standing around watching yachties get captured by pirates for "elf and safety reasons - the people on board had not been trained in hostage rescue - though it appears they did have a Royal Marine Commando unit on board.

It further transpires that there is a catch and release policy (like fishing) with some 350 SOmali pirates having been let go as soon as caught in case they claim political asylum - the AFghan Hi-jackers of an aircraft diverted to Stansted did exactly that and we have news today of a Somali family being housed in a £1.8 million apartment in London and costing the tax payers around £175,000 a year.

Me, I have decided there is some mileage in this piracy game so I just need to find the money to get to the Gulf and for a small boat with an outboard motor once I get there.

### RE: More PC stupidity

Even tho I am told I cannot use the word drill-jig, I refuse to relent.  It has absolutely nothing to do with people.  It's a thing.  Every Tool Design text or manual appropriately identifies it as such.  What I am sensitive about is that too many people misuse the word jig when they mean fixture or any number of other tooling devices that are not jigs.  Everything is a jig or if it isn't a jig, it's a die another abused term like when they really mean punch they call it die.  People just cannot seem to call a spade a spade -- ooops!  I was talking of playing cards of course as in spades vs diamonds.

Girls? -- gimme a break!  I thought females -- er non male humnanoids -- were sensitive to feelings of premature over-aged syndrome and therefore would consider being referred to as a girl would be a COMPLIMENT!  But noooo, we must take offense at something.  A true lady is offended if called a woman and of course my wife will be offended if I call a certain type of non male humanoid a lady but then it also depends on which part of the day or evening is attached to the lady term.

Chair?  I thought that was something that a person sits on.  OK chairperson if you must which rankles me much less than chair.  That just sounds plain stupid to me.  Hmm -- isn't there something in English grammar about person, place, or thing?

Once upon a time I took a class in computer programming.  The author of the text -- I think he was a man as opposed to the other gender -- chose to use personal pronouns of She, Her etc in every instance where we are used to the He Him version which would not normally be meant to infer gender rather implying mankind or person etc.  This was very distracting,counterproductive, and frustrating in trying to understand the subject matter at hand.

We certainly have become silly about all this nonsense.  However it is our own fault speaking of us male chauvinistic pigs for mistreating females in past times as somehow being inferior.  So now they are getting their just desserts.

What it comes down to is that we need to be sensitive to others feelings and attempt to be desensitized to our own feelings.  Yes our choice of words are very important but not nearly as important as our meaning if used to denigrate(to make black; blacken: rain clouds denigrating the sky = one definition),demoralize,demean, or degrade others.  Sometimes people need to be put on notice frankly and forthrightly but not out of spite or revenge or prejudice and not with ill-used words.  Sorry now I'm preaching.

Attempting to legislate words that cannot be used is not the answer, it is stupidity.

After all, PC is an oxymoron.

### RE: More PC stupidity

"The author of the text -- I think he was a man as opposed to the other gender -- chose to use personal pronouns of She, Her etc in every instance where we are used to the He Him version which would not normally be meant to infer gender rather implying mankind or person etc."

The books written by Liker, et al about the Toyota Way and the Toyota Process System do the same.

### RE: More PC stupidity

metman,

I have read a few documents where there the author has mixed hes and hers in an attempt to be fair.  If I have time, I count the occurrences.  Either these are equal, or the author is a sexist pig of some sort.  It is fun pointing this out.

If we all have to be PC, we can at least hold the purveyors of it to their own standards.

JHG

### RE: More PC stupidity

I'll go on a limb here and risk discomforting some members. I am African in a country where we have 54 tribes, consisting of subtribes that in turn consist of clans and so on. There is always an element of discrimination amongst the tribes, in that friendships and alliances even at workplaces can go along these tribal links. I suppose this is from the earlier mentioned inclination to suspect everyone different. Having said that, I know of many friendships, families, and associations that have transcended these barriers. A good thing. What I can't understand is its propagation even in modern-day situations. Selfishness?
PC is absolutely useless if it is creating more problems than solutions to artificial misconceptions. If one lives in a multi-cultural environment (at present that is almost everywhere on earth), then one should have tolerance and understanding to all expressions, and figures of speech used in that environment. Forcing some sort of limitations to vocabulary on the populace to avoid offence is a hindrance to the beauty of verbal communication.
Ships, countries were female in historical prose. Do they have any gender now? So is it now okay to call a baby of unknown gender 'it'? The notion of litigation on all matters even on common-sense issues is turning us into communicators of lacklustre abilities, to say the least.
Is the bus driver a male terminology? What of sculptor, ship-captain, master-of-the boat?

### RE: More PC stupidity

jumaj

I agree with but you lost me on this:

Is the bus driver a male terminology? What of sculptor, ship-captain, master-of-the boat?

Somehow this makes me think of actor/actress.  It is beyond me to understand why anyone would have a problem with the word actress.

It seems like much of the PC(Printed Circuit or Personal Computer -- right?) silliness comes from an attempt to mitigate racial descrimination which, as we all know, does not work.  One can still use PC correct words and demean with tone, body language, facial expression, voice inflection, unecessary repition, etc.  It has a lot to do with upbringing and environment and each indivduals' desire to be fair, understanding, forgiving, belief that every human being is special/unique and that each person has value.

My Dad was a dumb Swede as a kid in Spokane, Washington.  The Dutch had/have a demeaning mockery applied to them and on and on for the different races, ethniticity, etc.  As a young man, my Dad worked with a Swedish construction crew in California.  One evening he and a fellow worker were walking in San Diego when two Mexicans (is there something wrong with this description?  Meaning a person from Mexico?  I fail to see why the word hispanic is superior.  So then don't we need another word for American or Californian) OK, back to the two gentleman from Mexico -- walked nearby speaking in their native tongue (I'm sorry should I use some other term instead of "native?") my Dad's companion snarled at the jibbersh that was being spoken between the two persons from Mexico and made some nasty comment.  My Dad said to his companion, "what do you suppose they think about us speaking in Swedish?  Did you have any choice as to which nationality you were born?"

I'm sorry but I am prejudiced against people who are racially prejudiced and have nearly zero tolerance for it.

And whatever became of freedom of speech?

### RE: More PC stupidity

Oh -- I forgot to add:

PC my derriere!

### RE: More PC stupidity

After the Christmas Day Airliner Bomb attempt there summary of a Yahoo News story that said "As a memeber of an uppercrust n****ian family ...".  http://buzz.yahoo.com/article/1:y_news:ee1ac10bfb3df8cc3a8a213dc4254a00/Bomb-suspect-came-from-elite-family-best-schools-AP

When we are so PC that a newspaper has to blank out the name of a great country like Nigera to avoid offending someone (I'm not sure on this one who would be offended by the name of a country) then the bus has left and we are all doomed.

David

### RE: More PC stupidity

Did AP blank it?  Or Yahoo?

- Steve

### RE: More PC stupidity

Metman,

You have ruined my day.  Being the PC person that I am (hard to show tongue in cheek in print) I have insisted on saying Meggro for years now (can't say Megger any more can we?), but hadn't though how crass it would be to say drill-jig.

Shucks.

rmw

### RE: More PC stupidity

rmw,
You will have to help me on this one -- Megger.  Must be something perverse going on here so maybe I don't really wanna know?

mmmm-- crass eh?  hadna thought of it that way either.  Maybe I should rethink my insistence to use that terminology.  We need an emoticom with tongue-in-cheek.

megger - no dictionary results
Biddle Meggers - AVO
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Did you mean Merger?Dictionary:
Mugger
meager
merger
mugger
mergee
muggee
muggier
egger
merge
menger
Pegger
kegger
maiger
mauger
meeker

### RE: More PC stupidity

I'm a flangehead and I know that a megger (or meggro) is an instrument used by sparkies to control the magic.  They crank on a handwheel really fast for a while, say a few magical words (mostly starting with F**** and goddamn) and the electricity magically starts working again.

Somptingguy, It looks like Yahoo did it in the summary, if you go to the full article it didn't happen.

David

### RE: More PC stupidity

A Megger, excuse me, Meggro is as David states a test instrument very commonly used to test motors and generators and transformers; any gadget that has insulation that you want to test the integrity of.

Go to the motors and generators forum and do a search for Megger and you will be reading for a while.

rmw

### RE: More PC stupidity

Here in the states, there's a very tiny and nasty red mite that bites you behind the knee and other warm moist places I won't mention here. For hundreds of years it was called a chigger or red bug. Then suddenly we couldn't say either of those and we had to change to "CHIGRO". After awhile, even that didn't work and now it's "INSECT AMERICAN"

### RE: More PC stupidity

(OP)
Ellory,
You must be joking...but maybe not!  I think I endured enough chigger bites as a youngster that I deserve to still call them what they are.  Particularly bad when picking blackberries, but the blackberry rolls with white sauce made it worthwhile.

### RE: More PC stupidity

#### Quote (Ellory):

...Then suddenly we couldn't say either of those...

What do mean, 'couldn't say', cat got yer tongue.  Who says you can't say a legitmate word?  I just looked it up in the dictionary "...a tiny, reddish, wormlike larva..."  and you can't say red bug??????

What is wrong with the word chigger?  Is it because it rymes with a word that starts with N?  Really I am clueless.

I've known about chiggers since I met my wife who grew up in Missouri (Mizzura) and a few weeks ago my friend, Bob, in Illinois told me over the phone that he had one bite him right where you would not want and right on the head of it.

#### Quote:

places I won't mention here
'cause I ain't sure what he meant beings that is exaclty how he said it minus the quote from Ellory.

### RE: More PC stupidity

You guys must be very niggardly with the insect repellant.

### RE: More PC stupidity

The N word that rymes with chigger is not in my dictionary but the N word that rymes with dastardly is.  Some years ago a civil servant I think it was in Washington D.C. got into deep doo-doo for using ...ardly word.

Yes he is very ...ardly with insect reppellant or anything that would twitch the nose of deer alerting it to eminent danger as he is an avid deer hunter.

### RE: More PC stupidity

whats with the .... dots?

### RE: More PC stupidity

oops forgot one dot should have been ....ardly.

....= nigg

### RE: More PC stupidity

Hence the name of the thread; "More PC stupidity."

rmw

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