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Standard petrol - anti static additives or just rely on earthing..?

Standard petrol - anti static additives or just rely on earthing..?

Standard petrol - anti static additives or just rely on earthing..?

(OP)
dear petrol experts.

I am a process engineer from the chemical industry.  I apologies if this is an obvious question to those in oil and gas.

For petrol or gasoline do you solely rely on earthling /grounding at gas stations to prevent fires or do you use anti static chemicals.

It's clearly a safe operation(otherwise more fires would be on tv) but I am trying to compare to a typical chemical plant.  We inert all vessels containing hydrocarbons and those processing chemicals above their flash point.  This is clearly not practical for petrol used in cars... so i'd like to better understand this.

 

RE: Standard petrol - anti static additives or just rely on earthing..?

Antistatic additives are generally only added at the point of use, and that's usually only at airports.  Pumping fuels with these additives tends to destroy their effectiveness.  Airport refueling practice uses clip-on grounding wires, because flying tends to charge up aircraft with static, but I've never seen a ground wire at any gas station pump.

**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world's energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies) http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

RE: Standard petrol - anti static additives or just rely on earthing..?

Typically you will have no antistatic additives in the petrol. You will have grounding clamps for the truck that is unloading and the tanks will be grounded as well.
 

<<A good friend will bail you out of jail, but a true friend
will be sitting beside you saying " Damn that was fun!" - Unknown>>

RE: Standard petrol - anti static additives or just rely on earthing..?

lets get terminology correct.  Grounding means to ground.  Bonding means between 2 pieces of equipment such that there is no potential between them.

At the gasoline station, the nozzel is metal and there are metal wires that bond the car to the pump system will flowing. The cell phone was thought to be the cause of car fires, but as it turns out, its static discharge between the person (mostly women) and the nozzel when touching the nozzel after the car fill up.  Always touch the car away from the fill nozzel before touching the nozzel.

When loading airplanes, they bond the load truck with the plane, then ground the truck so that ststic electricity gets a path all the way to ground.

 

RE: Standard petrol - anti static additives or just rely on earthing..?

Nobody was talking about bonding, but now that you bring it up.  I was referring to fueling a plane at a private airport directly from a dispensing pump island installation, which is similar to a typical automobile service station, except there is a "ground" wire clipped directly to the a/c.  

However I do agree with your description of a commercial a/c loading procedure via a refueling truck.

**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world's energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies) http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

RE: Standard petrol - anti static additives or just rely on earthing..?

I always like to make people aware of the difference, so I appolgize if I was off topic.  I've been invloved with 2 fatalities that were a result of bonding isues, one was the static potential between a person and the truck being filled was enough to start the explosion as the driver opened a cab door when he overfilled the truck.

RE: Standard petrol - anti static additives or just rely on earthing..?

Actually it was good you pointed out the slight difference.  By the way, I haven't noticed the specific order in which those events take place.  Is it acutally the order that you mention, truck to plane, then truck to ground, or might it be truck to ground, plane to truck?

**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world's energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies) http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

RE: Standard petrol - anti static additives or just rely on earthing..?

It was such a long time ago that I filled Arnold Palmer's Lear at the Houston Open in (was it 1967?), that I now forget even if the truck had a ground.  I distinctly remember bonding, but if it had a ground wire, I don't recall using it.  I was too worried about driving that truck near the big buck a/c while learning how to "do the clutch" at the same time that I had way too many things to think about.

**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world's energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies) http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

RE: Standard petrol - anti static additives or just rely on earthing..?

I'd think that the grounding bonding sequence would such thatyou least differntial.  plan was flying in dry air, rubber wheels, huge static build up.  Truck has some build up.  Bond first to equalize to a lower potential, then ground.

On a humid day, I'd ground then bond.  But this my over thought out method.

RE: Standard petrol - anti static additives or just rely on earthing..?

I think I'd tend to ground the truck first.  Isn't it better to have somewhere for that spark to go.  Can't help thinking that, if it were the other way 'round, wouldn't Ben Franklin have invented rubber matts instead of lightning rods?

**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world's energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies) http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

RE: Standard petrol - anti static additives or just rely on earthing..?

I'd lean toward dcasto's suggestion - the big spark is likely to happen when you connect either (or both) to ground.  Better to have that big spark happen away from the combustibles.
 

RE: Standard petrol - anti static additives or just rely on earthing..?

But... but  You connect before the caps are up on the a/c, so the worse place for fumes will probably be from the drips around the truck tank/nozzle.  If you connect the truck to ground, far from the nozzle, then stretch the bond over to the a/c, far from the nozzle, there shouldn't be much to worry about, even if you reversed the proceedure.  I think it would be clipping things onto the truck that wouldn't be the best idea you might ever have.

**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world's energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies) http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

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