I'm NOT an English Major but............

The word "their" is, I believe, not an adjective but a possessive pronoun, in this context. Unfortunately, the author has used it without a clear antecedent. The antecedent is the noun to which "their" refers. In this case, as in many many others, it is not clear whether the pronoun refers to the files or to the team members. Use of Pronouns which do not have clear antecedents are an all too frequent mistake and make the sentence ambiguous.

good luck

I think "their" means "the team's", but since team is singular, the correct word is "its".

I would read this the same as hokie66:  that "their" referred to "team".  This is because of your Rebam98's additional information that the "team" has a directory assigned to it the team that is separate from a directory assigned to another team.

However I would take Rebam98's comment a bit further:  the "team" itself cannot upload the files.  In the end, a team member will need to take action to upload the files into the common directory.  As written this the sentence seems to be a good candidate for the old saw about Everybody, Somebody, Nobody and Anybody:

Quote:

There was an important job to be done and Everybody was asked to do it.  
Everybody was sure Somebody would do it.
Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it.
When Nobody did it, Somebody got angry because it was Everybody's job.
Everybody thought Somebody could do it, but Nobody realized that Anybody wouldn't do it.
It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when actually Nobody asked Anybody.

Note: As shown by my intentional edits above, I found it very easy to slip into possessive pronouns in writing the post.  Because the post was on the ambiguity of possessive pronouns, I found myself going back and editing for clarity and realized that the fact that I had to edit said a lot about the imprecisenss of my writing style.  I'm pretty sure I'm not the culprit behind Rebam98's sentence; however, thanks for bringing my attention to the fact that I need to watch how I word my sentences.

Patricia Lougheed

Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of the Eng-Tips Forums.

doesn't "the" (instead of "their") make the sentence read clearly ?

unless {name of directory} is a common name, like "personnal", rather than a specific name, like "XYZ".

I think I figured it out.

If you think of the process of uploading a file, you are taking it from one directory on the local machine and putting it on a different machine, which obviously has a different directory. The "their" refers to which directory to put it in, and in this case, the "team" has their own directory while a different team has theirs. (It is a trunk-branch process).

Indeed, I don't think this is totally obvious. I know this sentence means this because I looked at the process myself. The sentence doesn't stand on its own.

Indeed, it should be "its" directory.

And I agree the "team" doesn't do it, but rather an individual does it.

To make this sentence more clear, perhaps the following ... ?

"The  team uploads all necessary files into its directory on the server."

"The team uploads all necessary files into Team A's directory on the server."

"The team uploads all necessary files into its branch directory on the server."

"A member of Team A uploads all necessary files into Team A's (the branch) directory on the server."

 

I don't understand the confusion. "their" points to "the team". Who else could it be pointing to?


Hokie66,

The singular "their" is acceptable. Such usage is common in Shakespeare, Dickens, Austen, Chaucer, The OED, The King Jame Bible, etc, etc.

Perhaps each of the files belongs in its own directory, in which case, the team must upload each file into its own particular directory, and the writer is not being grammatically correct by saying '...files into their directory...'

It's very poorly written, because the meaning is only clear if the reader already understands, in which case it's not necessary to write the sentence.

I am sure there is other text and context around this sentence. The manual is written for someone who knows something about the process. The poor author is unfairly being picked on, even propbably to mask some deficiencies on reader's part.

Businesses are so global now, more non-native english speaking people are invovled than native english speaking people. This kind of "issues" will continue,languages and usage of words, etc. will keep changing. So purists needs to put their technical hats on, think harder,use commnon sense and move on or be prepared to suffer from heartburns for no real reason.



 

If you guys hadn't got me thinking on what it can actually refer to, I would have assumed it meant the file's directory!!
Now I am in doubt, same thing happened in school, though, I was happily going to become an accountant but somebody put this frakin' ChEngg bug in my mind, I doubted and succumbed

<<A good friend will bail you out of jail, but a true friend
will be sitting beside you saying " Damn that was fun!" - Unknown>>

Quote:

I am sure there is other text and context around this sentence. The manual is written for someone who knows something about the process. The poor author is unfairly being picked on, even propbably to mask some deficiencies on reader's part.

Actually, I did figure the process out, by thinking on my own. I in no way "picked on" the author anywhere in my original post. I was only trying to figure out what the sentence meant.

Quote:

Businesses are so global now, more non-native english speaking people are invovled than native english speaking people. This kind of "issues" will continue,languages and usage of words, etc. will keep changing. So purists needs to put their technical hats on, think harder,use commnon sense and move on or be prepared to suffer from heartburns for no real reason.

I took the document and the sentence to other coworkers and they agreed it was poorly written. It was an English person who wrote it. I am editing the whole document both for clarity and accuracy as several technical things were wrong.

Speaking English properly is a virtue not a vice. Deciding that people need to "think harder" to wade through mumbled, incoherent language would take us backwards not forwards. In any case, this is a grammar forum, where people dedicate time to speaking properly, so maybe you are in the wrong place.

Thanks to all others for replies!

Their's nothing wrong with the original sentence.

But there's something wrong with your sentence.

Indeed their is wrong in my sentence.

Quite clear to me,  it's the teams directory - if the writer meant the individuals directory / file then he/she would have said into their {name_of_directory} directories.

 

Good recovery, Tom. Lol.  

=====================================
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This is what I am going with,

"Team A uploads all necessary files to the {name_of_directory} folder on the server."

Is this clear?

In looking at the sentence and the process further, "their" referred to "files." They use a configuration management program, which permanently links the files on the local computer to the files on the server. The software compares the local version and the server version for differences. When they "upload" their files, they are saying the local is the better copy and thus the "files" should go to "their" folder.
 

REbam98

I find your rewrite to be perfectly clear.

Patricia Lougheed

Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of the Eng-Tips Forums.

Perhaps try changing the semantics of the sentence, without altering the structure of the sentence.

"The group puts all the babies into their playpen."

You would imply in this sentence, that the playpen is that of the babies.

However, put it into another context with a similar structure, and you imply differently.

"The group puts all the frogs into their bucket."

Nothing has changed really, except our interpretation. The playpen may be the possession of group, just as easily as the bucket may be the possession of the frogs. Because we are familiar with the two above examples, we "guess" what they mean. And for this reason, I would say they are both logically and linguistically valid.

They both make sense, as does the sentence in question. What isn't clear is the authors intended meaning; this might be down to the rest of the document being omitted, or a poorly written sentence, if I don't understand; the audience hasn't been properly considered - provided I am the intended audience of course, I wouldn't claim authors that write in foreign (to me) languages aren't writing properly!

That said, my language A level (don't know what equivalent is in US, I work in years and not grades haha) was some two years ago! And I may well be corrected on the validity of my suggestions, to which I will not exhibit any surprise!

Isn't English fun?

Cheers folks!

Agreed, English sure is fun - for every rule there is an exception - just to keep everyone entertained including native speakers and threads such as this vialabe.