PeterCharles
Mechanical
After reading an article in today's paper I'm interested in the answers the members of this forum give to the simple question -
"Who invented the gas turbine jet engine?"
"Who invented the gas turbine jet engine?"
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The jet engine 1
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GregLocock
Automotive
And the Germans also have a nominee, von Ohain .
Whittle's approach was more pragmatic as it is easier to get a radial machine to work, but the losses due to the awkward path of the gases inevitably meant that the axial approach was more efficient.
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Greg Locock
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Whittle's approach was more pragmatic as it is easier to get a radial machine to work, but the losses due to the awkward path of the gases inevitably meant that the axial approach was more efficient.
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Greg Locock
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GregLocock
Automotive
Well I've just found out that the German engine was radial as well!
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Greg Locock
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Well whoever was first, the initial results were interesting.
I think the ME 262 was an impressive looking aircraft more so than the British, but I understand the engines didn't last very long.
On both sides the development was hampered by lack of support or resources, and one wonders just what would have happened if either side had put the resources behind the jet engine that it needed.
Incidentally, I believe (one of) the German test pilots was a woman.
JMW
I think the ME 262 was an impressive looking aircraft more so than the British, but I understand the engines didn't last very long.
On both sides the development was hampered by lack of support or resources, and one wonders just what would have happened if either side had put the resources behind the jet engine that it needed.
Incidentally, I believe (one of) the German test pilots was a woman.
JMW
Here's a link to the group that has built 5 duplicate ME-262s. The last thing I read said they had sold one or two. They were flow at a comple of air shows. The engines are modern GEs. Same as somb business jets use. The were smaller than the BMW so they fit in the same size necelle.
And that is the real rub or lesson of history; potential vs decision. Thousands of similar interesting stories.
The ME-262 was the advanced fighter but, Hitler changed it to also be a bomber which pushed back production a year.
After the war, the Russians stole jet engine technical information from the British which resulted into the Migs.
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GregLocock
Automotive
Stole?
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Greg Locock
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Greg Locock
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Stole?
In reality the Russians had a some kind of official tour of the engine manufacturing works.
The story goes that at each machine tool the Russian visitors would be sure to tread in as much of the swarf as they could with their special soft-rubber soled shoes so that they could later analyse the swarf.
They needn't have bothered, as I understand it, the government sent them a complete engine some time later.
For the life of me, I can't think why they were allowed to visit the factory, let alone given an engine.
JMW
In reality the Russians had a some kind of official tour of the engine manufacturing works.
The story goes that at each machine tool the Russian visitors would be sure to tread in as much of the swarf as they could with their special soft-rubber soled shoes so that they could later analyse the swarf.
They needn't have bothered, as I understand it, the government sent them a complete engine some time later.
For the life of me, I can't think why they were allowed to visit the factory, let alone given an engine.
JMW
GregLocock
Automotive
Post war politics were interesting. Both the USSR and the USA received jet engine technology from the UK (well, and from Germany obviously).
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Greg Locock
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Greg Locock
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The UK gave/sold the engines to the Russians, it was a labour government as I recal back in the days when they still proudly sang 'keep the red flag flying' etc.
Now they may not have had a licence to make them like the USA did but just saying they stole the technology is misleading.
I vote for Frank Whittle.
I had to read the question twice though, I nearly voted for Hero as the inventor of the jet engine, but it wasn't a gas turbine. I also noticed in the link that a couple of others could claim the gas turbine, but not as a jet, however it would support my initial thinking that Frank invented the gas turbine jet engine.
Side bar, I read a series of articles in an aircraft magazine as kid about Stanley Hooker which I found fascinating. He was involved in gas turbine development from the 2nd world war till well into the 70s if not 80s.
So what did the article say to get you thinking PeterCharles?
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
Now they may not have had a licence to make them like the USA did but just saying they stole the technology is misleading.
I vote for Frank Whittle.
I had to read the question twice though, I nearly voted for Hero as the inventor of the jet engine, but it wasn't a gas turbine. I also noticed in the link that a couple of others could claim the gas turbine, but not as a jet, however it would support my initial thinking that Frank invented the gas turbine jet engine.
Side bar, I read a series of articles in an aircraft magazine as kid about Stanley Hooker which I found fascinating. He was involved in gas turbine development from the 2nd world war till well into the 70s if not 80s.
So what did the article say to get you thinking PeterCharles?
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
I vote for Frank whittle to.
What's the name of the movie about Whittle. It was made in the late 40s or early 50s. I remember the scene where he throws the hankerchief up in the air and it gets sucked into the exhaust duct ( out of the building -not the jet exhaust ). Good movie considering the subject and when made.
Speaking of having CRS I remember a PBS interview 15 or 20 years ago and they were interviewing someone (I can't remember who ) who had just flow over on the Concorde. Anyway this person had struck up a conversation with the person next to them and had them autograph the seat card. The person was Frank Whittle.
What's the name of the movie about Whittle. It was made in the late 40s or early 50s. I remember the scene where he throws the hankerchief up in the air and it gets sucked into the exhaust duct ( out of the building -not the jet exhaust ). Good movie considering the subject and when made.
Speaking of having CRS I remember a PBS interview 15 or 20 years ago and they were interviewing someone (I can't remember who ) who had just flow over on the Concorde. Anyway this person had struck up a conversation with the person next to them and had them autograph the seat card. The person was Frank Whittle.
jmw,
You were thinking about Hannah Reisch. I do not know if she flew Me262s. She flew lots of other stuff, much of it more dangerous, including the Me163 rocket fighter, and a manned version of the V1. She did not invent any jet engines as far as I know.
Do not forget Heron of Alexandria, who made drawings of a steam turbine back in the first couple of centuries BCE.
JHG
You were thinking about Hannah Reisch. I do not know if she flew Me262s. She flew lots of other stuff, much of it more dangerous, including the Me163 rocket fighter, and a manned version of the V1. She did not invent any jet engines as far as I know.
Do not forget Heron of Alexandria, who made drawings of a steam turbine back in the first couple of centuries BCE.
JHG
Thanks drawoh.
As for Frank Whittle, he of course earned virtually nothing from his invention since, as being of material significance to the war effort (not that your could prove it from the enthusiasm of the War Office or the Air Force until the very end) meant he could not patent the idea and the UK government was very good at handing out the details not just to the Russians later on, but also to the US.
Twits.
Yes, he'd have every right to be bitter, he could have been a very rich man otherwise. But I understand he wasn't. I'm not sure I would have been so sanguine about it all.
Its not a good life being an inventor in the UK which makes you wonder at the level of inventiveness there is; first the "Not Invented Here" syndrome and then, if it is any good, the Government takes over the rights when it likes and gives it out to who it likes.
JMW
As for Frank Whittle, he of course earned virtually nothing from his invention since, as being of material significance to the war effort (not that your could prove it from the enthusiasm of the War Office or the Air Force until the very end) meant he could not patent the idea and the UK government was very good at handing out the details not just to the Russians later on, but also to the US.
Twits.
Yes, he'd have every right to be bitter, he could have been a very rich man otherwise. But I understand he wasn't. I'm not sure I would have been so sanguine about it all.
Its not a good life being an inventor in the UK which makes you wonder at the level of inventiveness there is; first the "Not Invented Here" syndrome and then, if it is any good, the Government takes over the rights when it likes and gives it out to who it likes.
JMW
Sorry, I meant Heron when I typed Hero.
However the question was gas turbine jet engine so I figured that ruled him out.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
However the question was gas turbine jet engine so I figured that ruled him out.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
thruthefence
Aerospace
yes, she was.
and she was an ardent, non-repentant nazi to the end.
and she was an ardent, non-repentant nazi to the end.
"saying they stole the technology is misleading."
Visiting a plant and taking away chips in their shoes by design for analysis is stealing. But all sides have done that, so it's nothing new. The Bridgeport mill is another example.
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Visiting a plant and taking away chips in their shoes by design for analysis is stealing. But all sides have done that, so it's nothing new. The Bridgeport mill is another example.
==========================================
Business Page ------------------------------------------
Motorradtraum....
Pressed, the shoe thing turned out to be virtually a waste of time.
The British government gave/sold them engines after the war. The Russians then produced unlicensed copies. So yeah they stole the technology but not so much by cunning espionage as by being given it on a platter.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
The British government gave/sold them engines after the war. The Russians then produced unlicensed copies. So yeah they stole the technology but not so much by cunning espionage as by being given it on a platter.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
Kenat
Check the casualties here.
10,700,000 Soviet military deaths vs. 382,000 vs. Great Britan. Giving the Russians a jet engine is not a bad deal. The alternative might be all our friends in the UK learning to speak German.
Check the casualties here.
10,700,000 Soviet military deaths vs. 382,000 vs. Great Britan. Giving the Russians a jet engine is not a bad deal. The alternative might be all our friends in the UK learning to speak German.
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