Current spiking X7R
Current spiking X7R
(OP)
I'm attempting to degrade a 0.22 uF MLCC (X7R dielectric) through current spiking. What magnitude spike do I need to be slamming into this device in order to start causing damage? (even a rough order of magnitude would be helpful)
Spec sheets aren't getting me anywhere (I get a 500v rating, but no current information), and google isn't being very helpful. If anyone has either advice, or resources regarding this problem, it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
HRearden
Spec sheets aren't getting me anywhere (I get a 500v rating, but no current information), and google isn't being very helpful. If anyone has either advice, or resources regarding this problem, it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
HRearden
RE: Current spiking X7R
Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: Current spiking X7R
"degrade", not "vaporize"...
RE: Current spiking X7R
Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.- http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: Current spiking X7R
That's as close to a data sheet as I've been given. Part number is 501H42W223KQ4, but I haven't found anything more specific.
RE: Current spiking X7R
Feed one AC.
Feed one with 10% over its voltage rating.
Be helpful if you explained a bunch more. Part of Dan's facetious answer was due to the lack of any useful aspect to your test request.
Typically someone out to thrash components is doing it to prove the component is going to be robust enough for its task. The task being the environment and its connection to that environment.
A test should be comprised of taken-to-the-limit conditions expected in service.
Why are you testing this cap?
Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.- http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: Current spiking X7R
RE: Current spiking X7R
A test should be comprised of taken-to-the-limit conditions expected in service.
Why are you testing this cap?"
The focus really isn't on the cap; the cap happens to be part of the input filter to a power supply. My goal is to degrade the supply (on the component level)-in particular an input filter fault, and see if we can detect faults/failures as part of a diagnostic effort. Thus, I have a need for capacitors that are actually degraded, so that we can insert them into the supply to create the necessary fault condition.
Sreid: I have contacted the factory, but I've yet to receive any information back from them.
RE: Current spiking X7R
In a "controlled" manner?
I think that you will have to rethink here.
Do you want to test the test rig/people to see if they can catch a faulty capacitor?
Wouldn't it be easier to arrange the fault outside the capacitor. In a controlled manner. Like using a resistor for leakage. A spark gap (one of those gas voltage arresters) for possible punch-through. A capacitor with wrong value for tolerance check. Or even a flakey connection for internal weld faults?
Having all these separate faults from a zap is probably not possible.
Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
--------------------------------------
100 % recycled posting: Electrons, ideas, finger-tips have been used over and over again...
RE: Current spiking X7R
"Do you want to test the test rig/people to see if they can catch a faulty capacitor?" That's more or less the idea. We have algorithms in place to characterize these systems, and we want to be able to create a system that can achieve that automatically. As I said in the previous paragraph, the use of truly faulty materials has been successful in the past in similar efforts.
I just got an email back from AMC - they have no idea what the caps will tolerate. I guess it's "recon by fire" time...
Thanks for the input.
RE: Current spiking X7R
Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
--------------------------------------
100 % recycled posting: Electrons, ideas, finger-tips have been used over and over again...
RE: Current spiking X7R
I also agree with Skogs in that the best solution is to simulate the possible failures.
You will never, ever, achieve the full range of possible results from the technique you are embarking on.
Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.- http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: Current spiking X7R
I insist on you or someone else asking why I named him Hank (I feel soo smart)
Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
--------------------------------------
100 % recycled posting: Electrons, ideas, finger-tips have been used over and over again...
RE: Current spiking X7R
I thought 'H' stood for Harlequin. <just kidding>
I actually thought you were just being jocular. Like saying, "Okay Buddy".
Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.- http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: Current spiking X7R
I did read the "Atlas shrugged" by Ann Raynd. There is a guy named Hank Rearden. (And also John Galt, which is my alter ego in some Swedish fora).
There. Simple!
I am soo glad you asked.
BTW. I had a couple of beers with friends. German guys. So I am a bit more relaxed than usually.
Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
--------------------------------------
100 % recycled posting: Electrons, ideas, finger-tips have been used over and over again...
RE: Current spiking X7R
Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
--------------------------------------
100 % recycled posting: Electrons, ideas, finger-tips have been used over and over again...
RE: Current spiking X7R
http://www.avxcorp.com/
And click Spice Models/ Software
SPICAP should give you msximum ripple current vs. frequency and temperature.
RE: Current spiking X7R
Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: Current spiking X7R
The problem is that any change will take a very long time and that you probably do not get a "nice degradation" but rather a complete failure.
Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
--------------------------------------
100 % recycled posting: Electrons, ideas, finger-tips have been used over and over again...