I have noticed a new thing recently, universities are now offering courses on Stat Process Control and various 6 Sigma Tools even as a part of undergrad degrees and professional coursework. Even to the extent of calling them "Greenbelt Certificates in 6 Sigma" and what not. I understand that various different institutes like to tout their certification program as being the best, for instance ASQ's recognizes only ASQ, GE's school recognizes GEs and a few others, but how does the "industry" feel about this development?
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University Greenbelt Certificates
- Thread starter tgeorge
- Start date
From an old guy who worked his way from the factory floor to management and then ownership (who is apparently kind of grouchy today.)
These programs are all good in that they give an applicant the basic concepts. If I am hiring for accounting I want an applicant who has already shown an interest in accounting.
However universities are way behind industry and don’t really understand the concepts.
When I was a kid I spent a couple summers logging. Some of the guys were from the University of Pennsylvania which required its forestry students to actually go work in the woods. I think every engineer and manager should have to work on the plant floor.
Six sigma, etc. are all good but not radical. I worked on the factory in a lot of places where we kept asking why we “had to do this stupid shit.” Sometimes there was a reason we didn’t know. Sometimes we were right and management didn’t know what really went on. I worked as a cook in food processing plant. The recipe called for a couple cycles of heating and cooling. That was usually two to three hours. We had 45 minutes so we just threw everything together and heated it up while QC watched. The recipes should have been rewritten according to six sigma or more equipment and staff added.
As a manager I find we are still doing things the way they were done 25 years ago in spite of the fact that the world changed. It made a lot of sense 25 years ago but doesn’t now. I need staff to come ask me why we do things the way we do. I invented a lot of the processes which makes me even blinder to the need for change.
I have also had staff fudge specifications. We specify braze alloy by length of wire bit. At one time we had specifications such as a long 250 (actually a 280) but the specs called for a 250.
Sorry, a lot of this is off topic ranting by an old guy.
Six Sigma, etc. are all good but they all should be based on asking why you are doing something and if there is an easier way to do it. Also every body gets to think.
You can put two guys on two different shifts on the same fully automatic CNC machine and get more and better out of one than the other. Six sigma isn’t classroom theory. It is figuring out why this happens and then making it happen more.
Tom
Thomas J. Walz
Carbide Processors, Inc.
These programs are all good in that they give an applicant the basic concepts. If I am hiring for accounting I want an applicant who has already shown an interest in accounting.
However universities are way behind industry and don’t really understand the concepts.
When I was a kid I spent a couple summers logging. Some of the guys were from the University of Pennsylvania which required its forestry students to actually go work in the woods. I think every engineer and manager should have to work on the plant floor.
Six sigma, etc. are all good but not radical. I worked on the factory in a lot of places where we kept asking why we “had to do this stupid shit.” Sometimes there was a reason we didn’t know. Sometimes we were right and management didn’t know what really went on. I worked as a cook in food processing plant. The recipe called for a couple cycles of heating and cooling. That was usually two to three hours. We had 45 minutes so we just threw everything together and heated it up while QC watched. The recipes should have been rewritten according to six sigma or more equipment and staff added.
As a manager I find we are still doing things the way they were done 25 years ago in spite of the fact that the world changed. It made a lot of sense 25 years ago but doesn’t now. I need staff to come ask me why we do things the way we do. I invented a lot of the processes which makes me even blinder to the need for change.
I have also had staff fudge specifications. We specify braze alloy by length of wire bit. At one time we had specifications such as a long 250 (actually a 280) but the specs called for a 250.
Sorry, a lot of this is off topic ranting by an old guy.
Six Sigma, etc. are all good but they all should be based on asking why you are doing something and if there is an easier way to do it. Also every body gets to think.
You can put two guys on two different shifts on the same fully automatic CNC machine and get more and better out of one than the other. Six sigma isn’t classroom theory. It is figuring out why this happens and then making it happen more.
Tom
Thomas J. Walz
Carbide Processors, Inc.
If "real" or "actual" case studies and (even more preferable) field work are part of the certification, then I would feel that the programs may have some equivalency. In evaluating any program, look at its potential to provide you with truly useful and applicable knowledge/tools.
Regards,
Regards,
Greenbelt certificates can be handed out for completing course-work. Colleges don't offer the Blackbelt program because it has actual work programs associated with it, as such it is more complicated to pursue. Colleges saw an oppotunity to make money and acted. Or that college was asked enough times "why don't you offer a _____belt program?".
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- Thread starter
- #5
Well I guess 5 days elapsed time would be long enough so as to not avoid looking like a prat by responding early. 
*Grinds Axe*
I say this as I am engineer with about 3 years under me. Still kinda wet behind the ears compared to some of you old salts. I just got a greenbelt certificate through a university. What makes me a bit upset, is that the greenbelt certificate is nothing more than what I learned in college as an Industrial Engineer, and what I have been doing for the past 3 years, that Greenbelt was pretty basic stuff. In fact, some of the coursework from my major was much harder than some of the problems that were "difficult" in real life.
Yet, I couldnt have really claimed to have any real backing other than "a few college classes." Ironically enough, my original college in my major now offers the opportunity to attain that certificate as a part of the graduation package.
To me, it seems there is a ton of mysticism floating around about 6 Sigma or 5S or Lean Manufacturing or Lean Six Sigma or whatever buzzword it is now and who can be qualified or what agency can do it. To be honest, I feel as if this situation should never have developed and instead it should have been taught as college courses years ago. As the approaches are not really that hard to conceptualize and if you have a hands on class, its not that much more difficult to implement in class.
It kinda feels like this is nothing more than getting certified to do some math. Math is a tool. You need the same amount of know how about a process to know when to do X operation on as you do to know when and how and where to apply Six Sigma somewhere else.
I just dont why this is like this. All this just to use a calculation tool?
*Grinds Axe*
I say this as I am engineer with about 3 years under me. Still kinda wet behind the ears compared to some of you old salts. I just got a greenbelt certificate through a university. What makes me a bit upset, is that the greenbelt certificate is nothing more than what I learned in college as an Industrial Engineer, and what I have been doing for the past 3 years, that Greenbelt was pretty basic stuff. In fact, some of the coursework from my major was much harder than some of the problems that were "difficult" in real life.
Yet, I couldnt have really claimed to have any real backing other than "a few college classes." Ironically enough, my original college in my major now offers the opportunity to attain that certificate as a part of the graduation package.
To me, it seems there is a ton of mysticism floating around about 6 Sigma or 5S or Lean Manufacturing or Lean Six Sigma or whatever buzzword it is now and who can be qualified or what agency can do it. To be honest, I feel as if this situation should never have developed and instead it should have been taught as college courses years ago. As the approaches are not really that hard to conceptualize and if you have a hands on class, its not that much more difficult to implement in class.
It kinda feels like this is nothing more than getting certified to do some math. Math is a tool. You need the same amount of know how about a process to know when to do X operation on as you do to know when and how and where to apply Six Sigma somewhere else.
I just dont why this is like this. All this just to use a calculation tool?
Six Sigma is the latest incarnation of improving quality and reducing costs. Over the years there has been MRP, JIT, MRPII, Quality( Philip Crosby, ISO 9000, Malcom Baldridge), Lean, Toyota Production System, DOE, SPC, and many others. Today you can measure your improvements using Six Sigma. You can report your success and then give awards and take "holy" pictures. The real test is if one, two, or five years down line management is maintaining the success and moving beyond. Is 5S still being used 6 months down line? Do all the shadow boards have tools and are regularly maintained? Has the process capability been charted again to determine if age of equipment has impacted quality? In some cases the company has continued improving but in many I believe there is back sliding. The situation has improved up to the next level but again it has stopped.
My take on the latest consultant themes.
My take on the latest consultant themes.
tgeorge
Think of it this way, 6 sigma isn't necessarily for engineers. It is an empowerment/proofing tool for people in the office too. Companies look to their engineers to kinda rubber stamp the program, hence you are being drenched in it. When other people have trouble, and they will, look over your shoulder because they will be looking for you. During my class, only the engineers knew what was going on or so it seemed.
Your college probably looks at your training like this. They make money from the training that they would have lost to a training outfit. You look more entising to potential employers. The college looks more enticing for employers to collaborate with.
I may not be 100% on the nose, but it's something like this.
==========================================
Business Card __________________________________________
Cycle Heaven.......
Think of it this way, 6 sigma isn't necessarily for engineers. It is an empowerment/proofing tool for people in the office too. Companies look to their engineers to kinda rubber stamp the program, hence you are being drenched in it. When other people have trouble, and they will, look over your shoulder because they will be looking for you. During my class, only the engineers knew what was going on or so it seemed.
Your college probably looks at your training like this. They make money from the training that they would have lost to a training outfit. You look more entising to potential employers. The college looks more enticing for employers to collaborate with.
I may not be 100% on the nose, but it's something like this.
==========================================
Business Card __________________________________________
Cycle Heaven.......
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