What is your company's policy when it comes to who seals drawings? 4

[GalileoG]

What is your company's policy when it comes to who seals drawings?

Does the department head seal ALL drawings or does the design engineer working on a project seal the drawings for that project? Or maybe the design engineer co-seals the drawings with the reviewing engineer/department head?

I wonder what the industry standard is.

 

[GalileoG]

Of course the person sealing the drawings must have either prepared the drawings themselves or reviewed the work. This goes without saying. But in large design firms where there are multiple levels of QA/QC (ie. design engineer, reviewing engineer, department head review) who have all reviewed the drawings - who would usually seal the drawings?

 

[Ron]

The engineer in responsible charge of the engineering should sign and seal the drawings, not just the person in charge of people.

 

[dik]

I'm a consultant (contract employee or whatever) to a large engineering outfit and I seal my own work and that of others where I have reviewed the work. I'm covered by the company liability insurance and have no issue with it...

Dik

 

[WARose]

Thing about that is: I’ve been told I’m covered by that (where I work) too. But I’ve asked to see the policy before and they’ve been unable to produce it.

 

[MrHershey]

Work for a small firm (<15 engineers). Principal/president oversees virtually every job, so his stamp goes on everything. Nothing leaves the office without being reviewed by at least one licensed engineer, mostly because pretty much everyone here is licensed. Out of 15 engineers, I think only 4 or 5 do not have the SE and all are either young or in the process of getting one (was a practicing PE in a state without the SE license).

Would echo what WARose has intimated. Make sure the company liability *actually* covers any employee signing and stamping things. The reason our principal/president's stamp goes on everything is that he's the only one that actually has coverage under our present policy. Works for us since we're a small outfit and he's at the head of nearly every job and reviews most everything. Would need to look at expanding coverage if we grew too much. But would definitely confirm you're covered by some form of liability insurance before you start stamping stuff...

 

[msquared48]

I am one of the two structurals in the office, so anything that I do in WA or CO I stamp. Otherwise, one of the principals stamps the drawings.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

http://mmcengineering.tripod.com

 

[JStephen]

I stamp what I do, what the draftsmen or other engineers do is either stamped by me or my boss.

 

[kylesito]

I stamp my designs. We are a small company but that's the philosphy I was always taught coming up and one my boss supports...if you are an engineer and aren't taking responsibility over your own designs, no one else should either.

This is largely driven by insurance and how the policy is set up more so than an industry standard.

PE, SE
Eastern United States

"If a builder builds a house for someone, and does not construct it properly, and the house which he built falls in and kills its owner, then that builder shall be put to death!"
~Code of Hammurabi

 

[jgailla]

In my last company, the person in charge of the department (usually about 6 to 8 people, including drafters) signed all design documents.
My supervisor was very conscientious about being in responsible charge, making design decisions, and reviewing documents.
Another department head in the same office appeared to just sign whatever he was given and spent his time marketing.
I don't know how typical this is, but many in civil design work in teams of 6 to 8 people and one person on the team, who is the "department head", signs everything. From what I hear from friends, my experience is fairly typical, with many engineers acting correctly and some not doing what they are supposed to do.

 

[bernoullies123]

I have never seen a seal placed on a document or drawing in all the companies I have worked for. Everything has been through electronic approval through the EDMS or a scribbled signature next to their initials.

I've never even purchased my seal making device... all my colleges say that their kids like to use it to play with, that's about all the use they get out of theirs.

 

[JAE]

I don't think there is an industry standard but more a company-by-company policy or standard.

Currently I seal everything that goes out of my group as I am the only licensed engineer so far. Once others get licensed I think we would have them seal their own work provided we check with our insurance.

I once worked on a very large major project - I was essentially the design engineer, managed all the other structural design efforts, etc. No one knew the project like I did. Yet my boss sealed the plans and I was good with that as we both QC'd the designs together and honestly I was a bit scared to sign/seal such a big project.

 

[WARose]

Everything has been through electronic approval through the EDMS or a scribbled signature next to their initials.

To tell you the truth, even though I have gotten electronic seals when I have bought rubber one……I don’t trust the people I work with enough to give them such seals. I can just see that going on a drawing and it going out without my knowledge. That’s why I personally seal everything.

 

[TLHS]

WARose, I don't know how electronic seals work where you are, but here any electronic seal is comprised of both the image of the stamp *and* a public encryption key system. You need to put in your key to 'sign' the document. Canadian provincial associations spent a bunch of time worrying about electronic stamps, because it's important to make sure they can be properly verified and the engineer has to retain reasonable control of their stamp. I haven't used the system, so I'm not sure how much of a pain in the butt it is.

You're allowed to send electronic copies of wet sealed documents without an electronic key, if that's acceptable to the client, but in that case a physically stamped copy has to exist first to make the copy from.

 

[Hokie93]

A professional seal, signature, and date (if required) should be applied to documents in conformance with the state/jurisdiction licensing laws and regulations. For most states I am familiar with, the general requirement is that a PE seal, signature, and date means the document in question was either prepared by the engineer whose seal is applied or by an unlicensed person working under that PE's direct control and supervision. Most state regualtions provide a definition of "responsbile charge" or some similar phrase. In some states, a "revew" of work only at the end of the project is not sufficient to satisfy the responsible charge criteria.

 

[fel3]

Regardless of company policy, requirements for sealing and signing engineering documents are established by law. In California, the Professional Engineers Act contains the following language: "All civil (including structural and geotechnical) engineering plans, calculations, specifications, and reports (hereinafter referred to as "documents") shall be prepared by, or under the responsible charge of, a licensed civil engineer and shall include his or her name and license number." Electrical and mechanical engineers have similar requirements. Other states and non-USA jurisdictions probably have similar requirements, but there are probably differences too.

"Prepared by" is pretty clear. However, "under the responsible charge of" gets abused, IMHO. The California Professional Engineers Act defines "responsible charge" as follows: "The phrase “responsible charge of work” means the independent control and direction, by the use of initiative, skill, and independent judgment, of the investigation or design of professional engineering work or the direct engineering control of such projects. The phrase does not refer to the concept of financial liability." So, an engineering project manager or (on a large project) an engineering team leader working under a project manager would almost certainly meet the "responsible charge" requirements. An engineering business owner probably wouldn't unless the company was very small and the owner actually exercised "responsible charge." Being a figurehead on a project doesn't cut it, neither does being the engineer who performs the QC review.

The most egregious cases of abusing "responsible charge" that I personally know of invovled a retired engineer who would stamp and sign development plans prepared by engineering technicians for a small fee. I doubt if his "review" of their work lasted 5 minutes. This was nearly 30 years, but I'm certain it still happens today. IIRC, the retired engineer lost his license over this.

==========
"Is it the only lesson of history that mankind is unteachable?"
--Winston S. Churchill

 

[jgVA]

Another thought... Whoever stamps the drawings should have design related decision making authority, IMHO. i.e. a younger PE should not stamp drawings if major design decisions are driven by the preference of a more senior PE or reviewer.

 

[TLHS]

I'm not sure I necessarily agree. If they're forcing the change on the less experienced engineer in some way that the junior thinks is unsafe, then yes. However, a senior engineer often makes conceptual level comments, or gets consulted on major design decisions. That doesn't mean they're the one that's in responsible charge of the design work.

You shouldn't stamp something that you disagree with the design of. However, you don't have to make all the major decisions to stamp a document. You dohave to understand them and be in agreement with them. You also have to have the fortitude to say when you disagree and refuse to stamp something if it isn't acceptable.

Unless you're solo or incredibly senior, there are often some fundamental technical or preferential decisions that are made by someone else. They can take the form of company standards, client standards, standard company practice or the preference of more senior people. It's comparable to when your client has an in-house engineer. If they adamantly make a suggestion about design, you're likely going to make a good faith attempt to incorporate it in some way, even if it may not be the optimal solution. As long as you can prove to yourself that it works you certainly wouldn't say he should be stamping the design.

 

[jgVA]

TLHS - I see what you are saying and for the most part agree. I don't think I made my point very well. Just saying that one consideration, in the context of this conversation about who stamps drawings within a company, is who in the company has "exercised direct control" of the design? I don't think "direct control" needs to mean making 100% of the decisions, and agree that there's room for consult or review by a senior PE without them needing to assume responsibility or seal drawings. And yes you should absolutely speak up if you don't agree with a design or think it unsafe. Just trying to say that if the more senior PE is in general controlling most of the design decisions then they should be the one assuming responsibility for this. And conversely, if a more junior PE is sealing drawings then they should be given some leeway to work out the design their way if it is just a matter of preference, and provided that the design is safe, meets standards, etc.