Toilet Room Live Load 5

[BSVBD]

For a public facility, what Live Load do we use for toilet facilities?

This is an existing building alteration to a tavern.

I'm trying to use the existing wood floor joists and I would like to justify a lesser than assembly = 100 PSF live load in this specific area. It's hard to install new "reinforcing" joists without pulling up the existing floor.

The facility is being "architecturally" classified as an A2 Assembly facility.

From IBC Table 1607.1:

4. Assembly area / Fixed seats = 60 PSF <<< Could I justify this?
9. ... restaurant = 100 PSF

Do toilet rooms really need to be designed for 100 PSF?

Please advise... Thank you!

 

[mike20793]

I always follow the UFC 3-301-01 loads for bathrooms. It calls for 75 psf at latrines/heads/toilets/washrooms.

 

[jdgengineer]

Table C4-1 of ASCE 7-10 provides 60 PSF for toilet rooms. The commentary loads are intended to be guidelines rather than code requirements so you may need to review more closely with the approving authority. We would probably just design for 100 and not worry about it, but I suppose it depends on the limitations of construction as to how much you would want to push it.

 

[JoelTXCive]

What kind of restaurant/tavern is it? Do they serve salads or heavy carbs?

Sorry....couldn't resist.

 

[kipfoot]

Without specific guidance in table 1607.1 or ASCE 7 table 4-1, you'll have to use your judgement, which seems sound to me.

If I were able to visually verify that plumbers haven't hacked the joists under the toilets, I'd feel comfortable deferring to the commentary mentioned by jdeng. above, table C4-1. There's also other precedent for this. For example, the NYC code (Reference Standard 9) calls for 40 psf for toilet areas.

 

[Celt83]

Are you changing the use of the building, if so you may be looking at having the bring the whole structure up to current codes? Review the International Existing Building Code (IEBC).

Would also be mindful of what kind of finish they plan to put on the floors which may dictate reinforcing the floor joist regardless of the live load you check against.

Could get behind the rational for 60 psf or even 75 psf for Bowling alleys, poolrooms, and similar recreational areas.

 

[Triangled]

JoelTXCive, good point ....also one might consider that the live load decreases during use

 

[P1ENG]

During a storm, where do patrons go? Bathrooms are probably the first thing people think if there is no basement. This might be the justification for a higher load. Normally, people won't be congregating in the bathroom, but the code exceeds normal.

Juston Fluckey, SE, PE, AWS CWI
Engineering Consultant

 

[KootK]

I'd be inclined to go with the lightest, code supportable number if I had any interest in optimizing. I've seen photos of what the various load levels look like in terms of folks packed in together. Even 40 PSF would be wildly uncomfortable in a washroom. You wouldn't catch me in there unless I was trying to evade an armed assailant or something.

I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.

 

[JoelTXCive]

Here is an image from AASHTO's pedestrian bridge design manual.

100PSF is certainly possible, but it would be a very tight fit.

Due to the individual bathroom stalls and sinks, I think it would be tough to reach 100psf. 75PSF sounds very reasonable to me.

 

[racookpe1978]

Do a visual (or even a remote TV-type camera inspection) UNDER the current floor to verify the existing joists are not cut or drilled out by the previous plumber(s) over the years. (this was mentioned above.)

But look even more closely for dry rot, wet rot, mold, mildew, sewage spills and long-term wet water damage from spills or overflows from the toilets and sinks down around the outside of the toilet and sinks - like from years of mopping and "just let it evaporate" urine and mop water, sewage leaks and plumbing drains from inside the seals out to the wood and underfloor, and sprays or water damage from a below-floor leak. It is likely that you will actually need to replace the floor anyway.

 

[XR250]

What kind of restaurant/tavern is it? Do they serve salads or heavy carbs?

Sorry....couldn't resist.

If it is a Golden Corral, I think 150 psf may be more appropriate.