TIG EQUIVALENT OF COATED WIRE IN GASLESS MIG

[BillyShope]

Jumping over to this forum to ask a quick question.

About 50 years ago, I saw an accessory for a stick welder which used 2 tungsten electrodes. It provided intense heat and/or light. I was considering buying same (to expose silkscreen emulsions) when another application came to mind.

Would I get a sound weld if I were to feed the coated electode, normally used in a stick welder, into the tungsten arc? Wouldn't this be the TIG equivalent of the coated wire trick used with gasless MIG welders?

(For those wondering why I'm asking, I'm an old man who can still weld pretty well with a torch, but shaking hands make me a very poor stick welder.)

 

[Fabrico]

You may be thinking of carbon arc welding. Try a google on this and you will find lots of information. Gasless MIG welding uses flux cored, not flux covered, wire.

If you have some spare change ($500-$700 or so) you ought to consider a used TIG welder. If you can gas weld, you can TIG weld. The rod is fed by hand just the same way.

http://www.aussieweld.com.au/arcwelding/page17/page17.htm

 

[GRoberts]

What you probably saw was caled atomic hydrogen welding. It uses two tungsten electrodes. The hydrogen is used to sheild the weld and tungsten from the atmosphere, as well as add more heat through exothermic reaction when coming into contact with the weld/base metal and re-combining into H2 from atomic hydrogen. Hence the name.

http://www.specialwelds.com/atomic-hydrogen-welding.htm

I think all you would get trying to tig weld with a stick electrode is a mess. tig welding just doesn't need the flux, and it seems like it would just get in the way. Although the thought almost makes me want to try it to see what would happen. Anyway, I'm not sure what you are tring to do with that combination. If you are going to use a tig torch, why not just us an uncoated wire designe for the application?

 

[BillyShope]

What I'm trying to do is TIG weld without the "IG" in TIG. It would appear that which I'm trying to do is equivalent to MIG welding without the "IG" (using the wire with the flux core...which does make more sense than flux on the outside, which would pretty well foul up the feed mechanism). I can't see this making any more of a "mess" than normal stick welding. I'd just be using heat from another source to melt the metal and force the protective gas from the flux.

 

[unclesyd]

Look down at the flux coated TIG wire. It maybe what you are looking for.
I've only seen it in SS and it is a little tricky to weld as it produces a lot of slag.

I've heard that Kobelco has a flux coated CS wire.

http://www.oxfordalloys.com/stainlesssteel.htm

 

[GRoberts]

If I understand, you want to take a self-sheilding Flux core wire and tungsten arc weld with it- no shielding gas. That would not work because the arc would be unstabe in air, and your tungsten would oxidize, peventing a good arc as well. Even if those two obsticles could be overcome, you would not be consuming enough of the wire fast enough to form a protective atmostpere anyway. The feed rate for wire using FCAW is typically (depending on diameter) from 100-500 inches per minute. the rate of feed for tig welding wire as manually fed into the puddle would be more like 15 inches per minute.

If your main goal is to tig weld with a stick welder you have, it can be done, but arc starting is more difficult, and you will need to add sheidling gas aparatus.

 

[BillyShope]

I'm obviously not doing well in the communications department. Let's start again:

There is an accessory, for an AC stick welder, which consists of a holder for 2 tungsten electrodes. This accessory is usually used to provide heat for bending or brazing or as a light source. I was planning on buying this accessory to provide a means of exposing photosensitive silkscreen emulsions when another use came to mind.

With a stick welder, an arc is established between the coated electrode and the material to be welded. As the electrode coating vaporizes, the released gas protects the weld long enough to prevent excessive oxidation.

So, instead of using the arc between the coated electode and the workpiece, why can't I use the arc generated by the tungsten electrodes and feed the coated electode into the weld in the same manner as the filler rod in TIG or oxy-acetylene welding? With either the conventional stick welder or the technique I'm proposing, there is, in close proximity, arc, filler metal, and the protective gas. Am I missing something?

(See an earlier post as to the "why bother" involved.)

 

[GRoberts]

If your tungsten apparatus does not use inert gas to shield the tungsten, I doubt the arc would be hot enough to weld with, or the tungsten electrodes would have to be gigantic- otherwise, the tungsten would get too hot and oxidize (deteriorate), and the arc properties would significantly suffer. I believe the same problem would occur with trying to use a stick-welding electrode as self shielding wire. You wouldn't be consuming the electrode at a high enough rate to provide protection to the weld. I think the smoke and fumes generated would also contribute to quick tungsten contamination. As interesting as this would be to try, I just don't see it putting in successful welds. I've been wrong before though.