abusementpark
Structural
I've got a concrete wall with brick veneer on each side that we are using as a form. Are there any brick tie products to use in the brick joints to prevent the thrust of the brick from the pressure of the wet concrete?
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Ties for brick-formed concrete wall
- Thread starter abusementpark
- Start date
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dicksewerrat
Civil/Environmental
I wouldn't call it brick veneer in this case. It becomes a solid wall when the cavity if filled or grouted. Heavy duty brick ties or bent deformed bars can be used for this purpose, but you would have to do your own assessment. Fill the wall in several lifts.
msquared48
Structural
"Fill the wall in several lifts."
Exactly my initial thought Hokie. I hate blowouts!
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
Exactly my initial thought Hokie. I hate blowouts!
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
concretemasonry
Structural
For hardware or ties, look at the sites for Dur-O-Wal and other masonry joint reinforcement products.
Dick
Engineer and international traveler interested in construction techniques, problems and proper design.
Dick
Engineer and international traveler interested in construction techniques, problems and proper design.
abusementpark While I know of no masonry hardware for this purpose, there are a number of concrete forming hardware items that could be adapted to the purpose. I will not question the reason behind this method of wall construction and will trust your judgement that this is the best approach for the situation (unless this is an Architect's dictate), though I would suggest you check out the following link:
The problem that I see is that you will need to back up the brick with walers or strongbacks and some type of thru-ties. The spacing of both will need to be such that the concrete placement pressure does not break the mortar bond between brick coursing. Wire form ties can easily be custom-fabricated to suit the brick width and waler thickness, and made to break off about a 1/2 inch into the mortar. Then you should patch the resulting recess to avoid the rust stains that will develop from the ends of the ties. For extra cost you could get the ties made with stainless steel wire.
Folks like Meadow-Burke, Dayton-Superior, Gates & Sons, etc. are all capable of manufacturing the ties.
Post a section of the proposed wall with its reinforcing and I'll offer additional suggestions.
Ralph
Structures Consulting
Northeast USA
The problem that I see is that you will need to back up the brick with walers or strongbacks and some type of thru-ties. The spacing of both will need to be such that the concrete placement pressure does not break the mortar bond between brick coursing. Wire form ties can easily be custom-fabricated to suit the brick width and waler thickness, and made to break off about a 1/2 inch into the mortar. Then you should patch the resulting recess to avoid the rust stains that will develop from the ends of the ties. For extra cost you could get the ties made with stainless steel wire.
Folks like Meadow-Burke, Dayton-Superior, Gates & Sons, etc. are all capable of manufacturing the ties.
Post a section of the proposed wall with its reinforcing and I'll offer additional suggestions.
Ralph
Structures Consulting
Northeast USA
- Thread starter
- #9
abusementpark
Structural
I was planning on 5 foot max lifts.
It is a highly curved wall. We don't want to waste time and money on formwork if the brick is going to be there anyways. Also, although I'm not considering its contribution in strength design, I'd like to for the brick veneer to act somewhat composite with the concrete fill (similar to a CMU wall) to helps with deflections.
msquared48
Structural
And it's not only the height of the lift, but the rate of pour. The two together need to be regulated very closely.
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
I think a few pieces of information are missing here:
- How tall is the finished wall?
- How high can you lay-up single-wythe brick before you should be concerned about wind?
- What kind of reinforcing goes into the concrete portion of the wall?
You can easily stand up 2x8s, used flatwise, to act as walers to back up the brick to help resist the concrete placement pressure. As I mentioned before, you can easily get custom snapties made for an application like this.
Serpentine walls can easily be done with modular form panels IF the person doing the layout understands their limitations and the radii aren't too tight. Additionally, 3/4" plywood can be cut into walers for those forms on a CNC router table to define the wall geometry - which works only if the wall geometry is clearly defined - if this is totally free-form, then forget that idea.
Ralph
Structures Consulting
Northeast USA
- How tall is the finished wall?
- How high can you lay-up single-wythe brick before you should be concerned about wind?
- What kind of reinforcing goes into the concrete portion of the wall?
You can easily stand up 2x8s, used flatwise, to act as walers to back up the brick to help resist the concrete placement pressure. As I mentioned before, you can easily get custom snapties made for an application like this.
Serpentine walls can easily be done with modular form panels IF the person doing the layout understands their limitations and the radii aren't too tight. Additionally, 3/4" plywood can be cut into walers for those forms on a CNC router table to define the wall geometry - which works only if the wall geometry is clearly defined - if this is totally free-form, then forget that idea.
Ralph
Structures Consulting
Northeast USA
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