State Statutes with regards to PE's and fee proposals 1

[Ingenuity]

I am trying to search our state statutes to find sections pertaining to PE, A, S & LS and fee proposals, specifically any restrictions that are imposed upon them re fee and cost proposals etc.

Can anyone assist in providing a clause heading/title that is applicable such that I can undertake such a refined search?

Coming up with nothing so far - meaning either such a clause does not exist, or I have the search title incorrect.

 

[Ingenuity]

Further reading suggests that a Mini Brooks Act has been adopted by some States for public projects.

For private-based projects is Qualification-Based Selection (QBS) also mandated by some states such that engineers are not to compete based upon solely on fees?

 

[cvg]

no, only for public projects as far as I am aware

 

[msquared48]

Logically, how would that ever work in the private sector anyway?

Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)

 

[Ingenuity]

Mike,

I agree that it would not work with private projects, but I recall some engineers stating they will not provide fee proposals to private-sector clients and I was curious if it was because of some state statute about competing on fees.

If there is no such state statutes for private-sector projects, then I am curious what is the reasoning for some engineers to not provide fee proposals to private-sector clients, and how do they therefore procure work?

 

[msquared48]

For remodels, I never give a fixed feel proposal, only an hourly rate. Nevertheless, I do have a signed contract stating this. The end amount is never stated as the scope can change during a remodel.

However, for additions and new construction, most of the time I do give fixed fee proposals.

Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)

 

[cvg]

if the client wants bids, then you usually need to bid to get the work. make sure the client is aware of the exact scope and that anything out of scope will be extra

 

[Ingenuity]

Thanks, cvg.

This specific case (not under our procurement or management etc) is a mechanical-services engineering consultant who is refusing to submit a fee proposal - neither hourly rates, nor fixed fee - for run-of-the-mill mech/piping services to a private building. Kind of strange.

 

[IRstuff]

"neither hourly rates, nor fixed fee - for run-of-the-mill mech/piping services to a private building. "

Not just strange, but silly, as well, given that few people would buy his service without any inkling of how much they were going to cost. Perhaps, he's just not interested in the work, although, we usually see a "no bid" response in cases like that.

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[Ron]

A much debated issue for decades! Qualifications based selection should always be the norm; however, we engineers sometimes think like contractors and actually BID on services! Bad! Bad! I refuse to bid on engineering work...and have done so for 38 years. I'm busy....have never not been busy.... and will continue to do so. We are professionals. DO NOT SUBVERT THAT BY LOWERING YOURSELVES TO COMPETING ON THE LOWEST BID!!!

I have carefully stepped down from my soapbox....

 

[BrianPetersen]

"If there is no such state statutes for private-sector projects, then I am curious what is the reasoning for some engineers to not provide fee proposals to private-sector clients, and how do they therefore procure work?"

Two words: Repeat customers. Actually, add one more: Referrals. There's no reason for me to participate in bidding wars when I have enough work without doing that.

Phone rings. "I have something for you to look at. How soon can you get here?"

Probably three-quarters of my quotations are written up after the job is done and I already know how much I have into it.

Treat your customers fairly without exception and in an open manner, never rip them off, and the ones that are worth keeping will come back. There are some that I've dealt with for 10 or 15 years. There are a few where I almost feel like a part-time employee ...

 

[IRstuff]

Well, you either tell them how much it's going to cost them, in which case, you've proffered a bid, or you don't give them any inkling of the cost, and you've basically declined the work. To imagine that someone is going to allow you to charge them at some unknown hourly rate with some open-ended number of hours seems a bit delusional.

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[PEinc]

My business runs like BrianPetersen's. The phone rings. How fast can I get the work done? Worry about the price later. Treat them right. Give safe, economical, quick designs. Repeat.

http://www.PeirceEngineering.com

 

[urgross]

First, Brooks Act does not apply to the total fee, only the portion considered as design. Design is specifically defined under the Brooks Act, and is limited to 6% of construction. Cost estimation, site survey, travel, all work through Concept (35%), and most Other Direct Costs are excluded. A-E selection is based on qualifications, as well as fair and reasonable cost determination. I've experienced some public sector contracting offices trying to circumvent this by calling professional services as part of a Service Contract Act acquisition. I would never talk to them twice, just give the AMF.

Hard to beleive that all A-E firms would be so busy in the private sector that competition isn't included, only T&M. I've never experienced that as a consultant, or when selecting an arhcitect/engineer out of my own pocket. I'm not cheap, I just have deep pockets and short arms.

 

[Ingenuity]

Great information. Thanks you for your responses.

 

[cvg]

note that the Brooks Act is "a United States federal law passed in 1972 that requires that the U.S. Federal Government select engineering and architecture firms based upon their competency, qualifications and experience rather than by price." It does not apply to state, county, or local governments or private industry. some states have adopted their own version generally referred to as mini brooks act which may be similar to the federal law.