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SPS
- Thread starter BigInch
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- #2
I've been around Stoner for many years and seen the results of some very complex gathering systems. The models seem to converge very well for low-pressure gas and people who use it seem to feel it is the only option.
I'm still running a 10-year-old copy of MNET from Scientific Software Intercomp (now defunct) with probably the last functional dongle. Like Stoner, it will handle just about any piping configuration and as big a model as you can code so I haven't felt the need to buy one of the new sexy programs.
I spent last week trying to make a 32 well, highly looped, low-pressure gas model converge in PipePhase. What a horrible experience. If you don't guess the flow direction properly then you get really bad results that aren't obvious until you do a line-by-line analysis.
David
I'm still running a 10-year-old copy of MNET from Scientific Software Intercomp (now defunct) with probably the last functional dongle. Like Stoner, it will handle just about any piping configuration and as big a model as you can code so I haven't felt the need to buy one of the new sexy programs.
I spent last week trying to make a 32 well, highly looped, low-pressure gas model converge in PipePhase. What a horrible experience. If you don't guess the flow direction properly then you get really bad results that aren't obvious until you do a line-by-line analysis.
David
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- #4
zdas,
Thx for responding.
Ugh! I appreciate your pain. Is PipePhase doing 2-phase flow?
I've been using versions of SPS since the old mainframe version in 1986. I worked in a gathering system with 862 wells, many loops, multiple outlets and lots of field compressors inside. Never had any convergence problem. SPS usually works very well, once you get the model running, but that is generally not easy and always results in the addition of a few thousand gray hairs. Maybe that's a good thing... if you're bald. It always seems to be accurate. It is best to start with a microsystem and add on to it, one tiny little bit at a time, get that working and add on again. Lately one of my clients and I (or is it just me?) have been having trouble modeling dispersion between liquid batches. I was thinking about getting one myself someday, but price is relatively prohibitive ... so all of this has got me thinking. Seems like Energy Solutions TG/TLNET might be a real nice candidate. I have doubts about AFT, but admit I have not even researched its capability at this point. I don't know if it will do transients and heat txf to soil either. Still got some studying to do before I can think about opening up the billfold.
Thx for responding.
Ugh! I appreciate your pain. Is PipePhase doing 2-phase flow?
I've been using versions of SPS since the old mainframe version in 1986. I worked in a gathering system with 862 wells, many loops, multiple outlets and lots of field compressors inside. Never had any convergence problem. SPS usually works very well, once you get the model running, but that is generally not easy and always results in the addition of a few thousand gray hairs. Maybe that's a good thing... if you're bald. It always seems to be accurate. It is best to start with a microsystem and add on to it, one tiny little bit at a time, get that working and add on again. Lately one of my clients and I (or is it just me?) have been having trouble modeling dispersion between liquid batches. I was thinking about getting one myself someday, but price is relatively prohibitive ... so all of this has got me thinking. Seems like Energy Solutions TG/TLNET might be a real nice candidate. I have doubts about AFT, but admit I have not even researched its capability at this point. I don't know if it will do transients and heat txf to soil either. Still got some studying to do before I can think about opening up the billfold.
I'm hearing good things about Baker-Jardine (now Schlumberger) PipeSim. I'm going to a meeting this moringing to see if it will do a really complex system with four sub systms (a vacuum system for a VRU that goes into a 10 psig nominal system that goes into an 80 psig nominal system that goes into a 200 psig hp system that goes to sales, multiple interconnects between the systems). Schlumberger says it is no problem.
I think PipePhase claims to be able to do gas, liquid, two-phase, but I'm a low-pressure gas guy and haven't had much need for rigerous liquids handling.
I don't recognize the AFT name.
David
David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.
The harder I work, the luckier I seem
I think PipePhase claims to be able to do gas, liquid, two-phase, but I'm a low-pressure gas guy and haven't had much need for rigerous liquids handling.
I don't recognize the AFT name.
David
David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.
The harder I work, the luckier I seem
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I saw the demo today and exercised some functions that I know PipePhase can't do properly and PipeSim handled them very well. I'm sure that some "easy" things in MNET or PipePhase will be hard or wrong in PipeSim, but I don't know what any of them are yet. Each seat is $30k with a $3k/year maintenance contract. Too rich for me until the version of Windows come along where my DOS dongle for MNET dies.
David
David
DrillerNic
Petroleum
Going back over a decade to when I was a pipeline engineer, I used Stoner, PipePhase, PipeSim and NMS's Pipeflo for multi phase steady state pipeline hydraulics.
I preferred Pipeflo (it did cool down calcs as well, which were useful), but the windows style graphical user interface for PipeSim was easier to use than the screen input style interface on Pipeflo (but it was a few years ago, so Pipeflo may have changed!). But I seem to remember it didn't have that many multiphase flow correlations/ flow maps.
I know SLB have expanded the downhole aspect of PipeSim- tubing lift curves and the like- so I guess that's useful for modelling entire gathering systems!
I preferred Pipeflo (it did cool down calcs as well, which were useful), but the windows style graphical user interface for PipeSim was easier to use than the screen input style interface on Pipeflo (but it was a few years ago, so Pipeflo may have changed!). But I seem to remember it didn't have that many multiphase flow correlations/ flow maps.
I know SLB have expanded the downhole aspect of PipeSim- tubing lift curves and the like- so I guess that's useful for modelling entire gathering systems!
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- #9
Thanks for that comment Driller. I'm sure that SLB has a good product for what they do, but I'm a little hesitant to see if it can be "adapted" for pipeliners.
One thing I have learned to appreciate is a good graphical interface. I've done some of that with my old company for attaching to their SPS can. That is still something SPS has yet to learn. Theirs is too obviously an adapted front end fitted to the hulky old "C" engine. And, IMO, they forgot what all liquid pipeliners need most, graphical tanks. Shows that its the gas companies they rely on the most. I had to custom build my own trank graphics ActiveX and add it into their tool collection.
Well, I better decide fast. I said I can already do this kind of stuff on my web page. Later!
One thing I have learned to appreciate is a good graphical interface. I've done some of that with my old company for attaching to their SPS can. That is still something SPS has yet to learn. Theirs is too obviously an adapted front end fitted to the hulky old "C" engine. And, IMO, they forgot what all liquid pipeliners need most, graphical tanks. Shows that its the gas companies they rely on the most. I had to custom build my own trank graphics ActiveX and add it into their tool collection.
Well, I better decide fast. I said I can already do this kind of stuff on my web page. Later!
BigInch,
I have used AFT for fluids for many years and get good back up. I am not a gas or two phase fluids designer so dont know the capability of the software. the engineers at AFT did come out of NASA. I find them to be straight shooters.
They also do consulting work so perhaps they can give you some references of gas jobs they have done and the clients you could talk to.
Cheers
Geoffrey D Stone FIMechE C.Eng;FIEAust CP Eng
I have used AFT for fluids for many years and get good back up. I am not a gas or two phase fluids designer so dont know the capability of the software. the engineers at AFT did come out of NASA. I find them to be straight shooters.
They also do consulting work so perhaps they can give you some references of gas jobs they have done and the clients you could talk to.
Cheers
Geoffrey D Stone FIMechE C.Eng;FIEAust CP Eng
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