Snarky Architect 6

[SteelPE]

I have an odd situation here so bear with me.

I am working on a project for a steel fabricator. The project was awarded by a GC to the steel fabricator. The GC also hired an architect who works directly for the GC. I went to a meeting the other day that was attended by the GC, Architect, Fabricator and I. During the meeting the architect brought up a question about something that he though was questionable on my drawings. I explained to him the design approach to which we rebuffed “Glad it’s not my stamp”. I didn’t think much of it at the meeting as my client, the steel fabricator, and I have worked together for 17 years and he knows why and how I operate.

However, looking back I am thinking the comment was quite rude and unprofessional. The situation is quite complicated. The GC is someone who I have been trying to obtain as a client (the fabricator knows this and doesn’t care) and the architect is someone who often works for the GC. This isn’t the first time I have had an issue with this architect and I am thinking he is trying to push the GC away from me and towards he preferred engineers.

There is another situation similar situation on a different project where I am working directly for the architect at the request of the GC and the architect "hung me out to dry" on a sticky situation in front of the GC and the end user.

I almost feel like I should confront the architect about this but I am beginning to think working with this client, the GC, isn't going to be worth the aggravation as they has used this architect for quite a long time. What would others do in this instance?

 

[EngineeringEric]

"Wow, I guess performing floor area calculations or roof venting requirements must really hone your engineering skills"

I would not confront the architect. I think this is the sort of thing they are taught. The best way to deal with it is to either snip back in good nature or ignore. As long as you don't cross a line or make some comment more insulting than the architect they shouldn't get offended. And if you play your cards right maybe the GC will join the fun and poke fun as well.... or someone will leave crying it is a delicate game.

 

[SteelPE]

In the same meeting there were two confrontations. The first was between the architect and I with the architect being the aggressor. The second was between the GC and the architect with the GC being the aggressor. The GC commented after the second exchange that everyone was "being defensive".

I'm starting to think trying to obtain the GC as my client is unrealistic and not worth the effort. This is because no matter how much I make an effort the GC doesn't seem to notice or care and the projects I am getting from him seem to reflect this.

 

[controlnovice]

These responses are always too late...

I think the most professional, while still putting him on the spot, would have been...in a non snarky, calmly worded, response:

"Can you help us (don't say -me-) understand where and why the design should be different (...or...understand the issues with this design, ...or...understand what you would have done differently, etc...)?"

Most of the time, they can't answer... they are just trying to 'show face' to the customer.

If he does answer...well then...your response is, 'Thank you for your input, I'll investigate it"...and follow up with the GC why you didn't, or did, take his advice.

______________________________________________________________________________
This is normally the space where people post something insightful.

 

[xnuke]

These types of situations always bring to mind Edith Wharton's The Age of Innocence:

"...bursting with the belated eloquence of the inarticulate."

I always try to rise above these behaviors in others. It only makes the other party look worse.

xnuke
"Live and act within the limit of your knowledge and keep expanding it to the limit of your life." Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged.
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[SandCounter]

I say look for some leisure time to spend with the snarkitect. Grab a beer after work. Go golfing. Putting in some humanizing time with him will reduce his professional insecurities. Many times a good engineer can shave down fluff, margin, and safety factors with confidence because of experience and knowledge. Your seal gives you that right.

 

[Panther140]

A lot of architects understand that everything besides engineering is basically a bunch of BS. It probably makes him feel good to put you down. He can fantasize about being professionally superior to you in some way for a fleeting moment. Jealousy in the work place manifests itself in ways that look a lot like the situations you describe.

"Formal education is a weapon, whose effect depends on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed." ~ Joseph Stalin

 

[JNieman]

A lot of architects understand that everything besides engineering is basically a bunch of BS.

I doubt that a significant portion of engineers even believe that.

 

[jayrod12]

So in a meeting this morning I had an extremely similar experience.

Situation: Schematic design meeting for a sizable commercial building project. A new addition is throwing a snow shadow onto an existing building. After I give my overview of the framing type and mention that reinforcement of the existing roof is required due to this additional snow load the architect turns to the client and says "Don't worry, no reinforcement is required, I guarantee it". The entire time he's speaking he's giving me the holier than thou look.

So when he finishes his guarantee my response is "How about we get together and compare design calculations to see where I went wrong in checking the existing roof?". The table chuckled, he went a touch red.

 

[Drazen]

wanting to get new client imho cannot be reason to allow anyone to disrespect you in such a manner.

if the guy has no heavy proof against your dealings, you should have sacked him, otherwise you are actually giving his points a weight.

it's all about arguments, and if your arguments are strong enough, you should defend them. that does not mean you need to be rude in return, but you can be firm and polite at the same time.

 

[gravityandinertia]

@jayrod12

I know others would argue that you got "snarky" there, but I applaud you. Sometimes it's necessary, that Architect isn't likely to undermine your authority in your field of expertise again. Sometimes being too polite opens up the door for dealing with more of these types of comments in the future. I think what you said was the right balance of stating your credentials against his and showing he's out of his depth.

It does make me wonder about motivation. Is it really because he thinks he's superior? Or does he think the client believes the client thinks reinforcing is more money and that will make the client back out?

If you have the time, I would call/ask to meet and ask him his motivation for that line. If you get the feeling he's just a jerk, then write it off. If he says, "I was worried that the client would think it's too much money." You have an opportunity to tell him on future collaborations any concerns can be discussed together before the meeting if possible. I'm sure you both want the project to happen. If this is the case, it will bolster your relationship.

After writing this, I realize I wrote it all to jayrod12, but it's really general advice to anyone. I've been in a role involving a significant amount of sales for the last 4 years, and find that when two parties understand each others motivations, the relationship grows exponentially as does the ability to present in a manner that builds each other up.

 

[bigmig]

Don't burn bridges if you can help it. You never know which one's you will need to cross in the future. Even a fool is thought wise when he keep's his mouth shut.
The big part is don't let in bother you. Easier said than done.

 

[MacGyverS2000]

You may not want to burn bridges, but you shouldn't let the trolls overtake them, either. Both ends of the spectrum will end unhappily.

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[SteelPE]

At this point it is just too far removed to confront the architect. I still get the feeling that I am the redheaded step child in the contractor/architect/engineer relationship. I really don't care at this point, but should be ready for the new confrontation if it arises.

I usually sit in the corner and mind my own business unless asked about structural items. I figure this is the best approach to meetings especially when I am with my fabricator clients (they love to talk). I usually shove my foot in my mouth one way or another anyway.

 

[Guest262653]

I followed Jayrod12's approach yesterday in a site visit with the client and the architect. Got a chuckle from the client and a probable enemy for life. Worked like a charm!

 

[jayrod12]

Good for you avscorreia, it's not about making enemies or embarrassing someone. It's about standing your ground and showing the client that you input is required. If you happen to take the arch down a peg or two in the process then that's a bonus