Sign and seal a letter for permit purpose w/o firm number 3

[khkw]

I have been asked by a friend to inspect their deck construction in the back of their house. After the construction was completed the city ask them to provide a document (a letter) signed and sealed by a PE to certify that the deck was constructed in accordance with applicable building code. I am a registered PE in General Civil/Transportation. I understand that when you put your SEAL down you have to provide a firm number. Since I don't have a registered firm of my own (I work for a consulting firm) I am not able to provide the firm number. Can I still sign and seal this letter? Also my PE is in general civil not in structural, is it ok for me to sign and seal this letter?

Thanks,
KW

 

[cvg]

no, you don't need to add a "firm number". suggest you go to your board of registration rules and read them. if you are not experienced in structural, you probably should not be signing this letter

 

[woodman88]

Depends on the States Engineering Rules. You need to read the Rules for your State and not get an online opinion about this.

Garth Dreger PE - AZ Phoenix area
As EOR's we should take the responsibility to design our structures to support the components we allow in our design per that industry standards.

 

[msquared48]

You should have a number assigned to your PE stamp. If your firm is an engineering corporation, and is licensed in your state of business, it could too.

In many states, PE's can stamp deck plans.

As per the above, you should check with your state board, and the local jurisdiction as to what is required here.

Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)

 

[IRstuff]

Is it budget cutbacks; isn't it more typical that the city does the inspect to adjudicate code compliance?

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[jgailla]

I've never heard of providing your certificate of authorization number unless you are doing work under the auspices of a company.
Individual engineers use their PE number.

 

[msquared48]

IRstuff:

Many jurisdictions require special inspections by outside firms such as testing agencies, to include the engineer of record, in addition to those of their inspectors. This is not uncommon, just a little odd considering its a deck.



Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)

 

[khkw]

It is an elevated timber deck about 8' above ground with structural elements. Also with about 3' overhang. City inspector came to inspect and requested the letter.

 

[msquared48]

Sounds like the City wants to spread shift the liability.

Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)

 

[EngineeringEric]

M2, The city never has the liability, somehow they wrote the rules right for themselves . They could just feel that the deck is over their heads from a prescriptive code and don't know what is good or bad.

 

[msquared48]

When you are standing on the ground, under an 8 foot high deck, of course it is over your head.

And that is not true of a city or jurisdiction never having the liability. They might like you to think that...

God help Snohomish County with all the lawsuits that will be emanating from the OSO landslide fiasco...

Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)

 

[beej67]

I wish more places did this for decks. Buddy of mine was caught in a major deck collapse and snapped his femur clean in half.

Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -

http://www.campbellcivil.com

 

[msquared48]

I always understood otherwise, but I stand corrected.

http://www.berding-weil.net/articles/public-agency-protection-in-building-permit-process-myth.php

Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)

 

[CELinOttawa]

Well Mike, you're right... Just not for right where you are. If you're curious about most (but no longer the originating UK) common law jurisdictions, look up Bognor Regis. In this finding, applicable to Canada, Aussie and NZ at least, the city was held at fault for failing to catch major problems with construction which caused a future owner economic loss.

 

[Ron]

In the US, most government (City, County, State) agencies enjoy a reasonably high level of sovereign immunity, so their inspections and approvals are basically worthless from a liability standpoint. As for signing/sealing the letter, as long as you are not practicing outside your area of expertise you are probably OK to sign individually; however, you need to understand a few things.....

1. In all states in the US, you are individually licensed, even though you work for a company that might have multiple engineers, holds itself out to the public as an engineering firm and has a certificate of authorization (a number). That CA number means nothing to an individual signing/sealing event, other than the fact that you might be a representative of that firm when using such.

2. Again, in the US, YOU hold the license to practice engineering. You can use that individually or as a representative of a company. If you sign the letter, you are "moonlighting". Is your company OK with that? Are you providing services individually that compete with your company? If so, you might want to explore the ethics of doing so.

3. Will your signing potentially expose your company to liability? If so, you might want to let them know what you are doing.

4. Are you willing to accept the liability for the deck? By signing/sealing you do so. Think about it.

Does your friend understand what he/she is asking? They are asking you to state, to the best of your professional ability, that the deck meets ALL local codes and standards; and is structurally adequate for its intended use. As cvg noted, read your state rules for engineers and if you are not capable of evaluating the structural efficacy of that deck, don't sign the letter.

 

[CELinOttawa]

Bang on - Listen to Ron... And don't forget the durability requirements of your code! I have yet to see a deck properly detailed and built for durability WITHOUT an Engineer's involvement up front. Even the old trusted (and much more trustworthy than the new replacements!) CCA pressure treat cannot keep wood from rotting if ponding is allowed.