Quick question please.

[Dickspanner]

I have a bare house and want to create a 12v lighting scheme for the whole house.

My thoughts are a 12v power source eg batteries connected to a traditional distribution board.

Install traditional circuit breakers and wire a series of 12v LED down lighters and switches the same way you would wire a normal house except in radial rather than ring main.

The 12v power source would be charged by either a wind turbine or a solar panel with the charging controlled by a standard charger unit that you get with wind turbines or solar panels.

Does this sound like an idea that could be installed?

This may be a really stupid question due to limitations of 12v DC of wire distances etc, I really do not know and when I google for info all you get from the internet now a days is just people trying to sell their system as the only way you can do it. It may be me being simple but this system appears to be possible. I was thinking of 12v LED down lighters MR16 units and then a traditional wired system.

Cheers in advance

 

[VEBill]

"...except in radial rather than ring main."

You must be in the UK or somewhere with similar wiring concepts.

In North America, you would almost certainly be forced to install a normal, AC powered lighting system to pass Building Code and Electrical inspection. So any low voltage DC LED system would have to be a extra parallel lighting system.

You should beware of using non-approved wiring within the walls. Building and Electrical inspectors would look very closely at any unusual wire type, and then start quoting flammability standards.

You'd also need to pay attention to DC circuit breakers to protect the wiring, and then you'd run into issues with them being unapproved.

All that said (written), there are LV DC LED light fixtures, but they're typically powered by AC from the line.

 

[itsmoked]

"Traditional" isn't going to cut it. The breakers are not going to be appropriate. However, take a look at boating panels. Those breakers are for 12/24Vdc and will come in appropriate sizes. A large pleasure craft will likely have have a bigger distribution requirement than your house.

Check at west marine for "circuit breakers" and "distribution panels" to see what I mean.

Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[Dickspanner]

I had not thought about boating as I thought they would have a generator on board running the system at 240v so that is a good idea.

Wiring is for my project in France and I want to put all the lighting inside the house on 12v DC and have them charged green e.g. solar/wind. this way all the lights are off grid and when we get power cuts (quite frequent) then we still have lights through the house. Once all the lights are in and working I would then install the sockets etc on a separate system completely with no chance of cross over etc. These would be powered from grid with a full isolation switch to cut off grid supply and power by generator if required (no chance of generator feed going into incoming supply due to isolation switch

I have been looking at 12v LED lights which are MR16 fittings.

The wiring would be done with 1.5mm solid singles in conduit to French regulations and radial circuits.

I was also looking at acquiring some massive batteries which are being replace from a power station, they were standby batteries in case of emergencies but they are being replaced (but never used but replaced to comply with regulations). They are 0.5v DC batteries and I was thinking of getting 24 of them to make my 12v DC source.

Cheers for the answers guys, make a change from you do not know what you are talking about so employ us to sort out your problem.

Regards

Dickspanner

 

[VEBill]

Whatever you do, "make friends with" the inspectors and get them on-side for your plans. To do otherwise is financially and perhaps even legally risky. If approached correctly, and assuming they're in a good mood, there should be a way forward that would result in everyone being happy. Good luck.

 

[msquared48]

On a boat, you can use a power inverter to upgrade to 120 from 12 volt, using a 12 volt deep cycle battery system.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

http://mmcengineering.tripod.com

 

[jraef]

I think, as VE1BLL said, local building codes may force you to INSTALL a traditional AC lighting system, if for no other reason that to ensure to some future owner that they will not need to rely upon something unfamiliar or odd. But that does not mean you must actually use it. You could install your 12VDC auxiliary lighting system in parallel (so to speak) and if done appropriately, it should not be an issue. Wire flamability might be, but if you get what it called "plenum cable" you should be OK, it's no different than running circuits for an alarm system if you think about it. If you are in somewhere other than North America, a standard breaker box should be fine, but you will have to order the DC rated versions of the MCBs. If you are in North America, I'm not sure that "limited energy" circuits such as this would fall under the same codes as regular power systems, so you may actually be able to use the IEC breaker boxes for this as well, although because they are not UL listed, they may be hard to find. I too think the Marine panel idea is a good workaraound.

If you check out some "off-grid living" websites, they will have ideas as well, this is not uncommon in that realm.

"Dear future generations: Please accept our apologies. We were rolling drunk on petroleum."
— Kilgore Trout (via Kurt Vonnegut)
For the best use of Eng-Tips, please click here -> faq731-376

 

[DRWeig]

jraef, thanks for the nice segue into a plug for my all-time favorite magazine and web site for off-grid types.

This is my second time to type this link into an eng-tips forum in all my years here, and the first time was yesterday.

http://motherearthnews.com

There have been a number of relevant articles over the past few years. If my memory serves, there have been lighting with LEDs, solar, wind, paddlewheel-in-the-creek, and others.



Best to you,

Goober Dave

Haven't see the forum policies? Do so now: Forum Policies

 

[MiketheEngineer]

Is 12v going to be enough --- or are you going to be squinting a lot??

 

[VEBill]

Low voltage ≠ low brightness.

 

[MikeHalloran]

Camping trailers/ caravans sold in the US are usually equipped with a dual system comprising 120VAC for refrigerator, air conditioning and wall outlets, with 12VDC lighting in and out. The distribution box includes a charger for the lighting battery, as well as AC and DC breakers. Because they are mass produced and sold into a cost sensitive market, the components are available through RV parts outlets at competitive prices. There _must_ be a market for caravan repair parts in France.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[berkshire]

Following up on Mike halloran.
Caravans and boats in the uk for the most part have 220/240 volt power supplies for use in caravan parks and marinas.
A built in charger charges an internal battery pack for use off line, some caravan units also charge from the towing vehicle .

Some businesses in the UK have 12 or 24 volt emergency lighting systems for use during power cuts, this wiring is completely separate from any mains wiring except for a feed to the battery charger and a relay that keeps the system de-powered while the power is on.
Hope this helps.
B.E.

The good engineer does not need to memorize every formula; he just needs to know where he can find them when he needs them. Old professor

 

[Dickspanner]

Thank you.