Power industry changes

[magoo2]

I'm trying to get a handle on when different trends in the power industry were started. For example, you see some copper wire on overhead systems, but utilities switched to aluminum quite some time ago.

Is there a link that tracks some of the more significant changes?

 

[BJC]

I have naver seen coper wire on overhead systems. The last I heard of was the LAPWD line from Hover Dam to LA.
Aluminum and ACSR are common.

 

[magoo2]

I'm not saying its common, but there is copper wire that was in use prior to aluminum which is prevalent today. I even see some copperweld which some refer top as war-wire, since it was used during WW2 when copper was in short supply. Probably after the war that ACSR and aluminum usage in general took off and copper was not standardly used.

You're probably not going to see copper on transmission lines; there's still a fair amount out there on distribution lines.

 

[waross]

At one time aluminum was a precious metal due to the extremely high cost of production. Does anyone know when modern production methods dropped the price of aluminum dramatically? There is possibly a correlation.

Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter

 

[GregLocock]

I bet the price of aluminium is pretty much directly correlated historically to the price of offpeak electricity.

Cheers

Greg Locock

SIGlease see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[oldfieldguy]

waross--

You're right. Before the advent of electrolytic processes to produce aluminum, elemental aluminum was rare and expensive. In 1884 a one hundred ounce chunk was used to cap the Washington Monument and at the time that was the largest piece ever produced.

According to Wikipedia it's been available in commercial quantities for a hundred years. Same Wiki article says 15 kWH produced 1 kg of aluminum. Historically speaking, aluminum manufacturing in the US has centered around cheap electricity such as hydro or cheap natural gas fuel.

old field guy

 

[thruthefence]

Around here,if it was copper,it would be stolen, & sold for scrap. Might kill a few at first, but they would find a way.

 

[ScottyUK]

Man, don't start that discussion: I was branded a Nazi and who knows what a little while ago for a few choice observations about those who steal the copper. Still, if the thieves end up as crispy critters I really don't care - it's the utility workers who can get hurt as a result of criminals stealing earthing systems that I worry about.


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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!

 

[lz5pl]

Scotty, are they stealing copper conductors in UK? I really didn't expected it, I considered this as a poor countries specific! Actually in our country they "invented" a way of stealing aluminium conductors from 110 kV line under tension !
Somewhere in 90's it was a big problem for the utilities, but now this practice decreased - I hope the reason is that most of the "specialists" have made once a mistake.

By the way, during my visit to Ethiopia some years ago I saw many drums with ACSR left unguarded near to the road (new 132 kV line was in construction in that area). I asked colleagues from the utility and they said - No, thefts are not a problem, because there is not a system for buying up the scrap metal!
Well, I am sure when the progress come there they will face the same problem too ;-)

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It may be like this in theory and practice, but in real life it is completely different.
The favourite sentence of my army sergeant

 

[thruthefence]

While the particular part of the USA I reside could properly be considered a "developing country", the powers that be have, at least, enacted legislation defining certain scrap metal thefts as a felony. The scrap dealers have also been put on a similar footing as pawn shops, requiring photo ID & a signature for 'off the street" scrap sales.

 

[magoo2]

In addition to the wire differences, I remember the older pole type distribution transformers. They were painted with a dark blue paint long before the gray caught on.

 

[plasgears]

A humorous story:

A new home was under construction, and an observer saw some bandits stripping the copper pipes. They even cut a pipe under pressure, and it was left open filling the basement.

 

[KENAT]

Humorous to who? The owner, the contractor?

I may get branded with Scotty but humorous would have been if the pipe under pressure squirted a fuze box and they all got a 'short, sharp shock', blacked out and woke up just in time for the rozzers to cart them off in the meat wagon.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[escrowe]

In south Florida, we've had thousands of dollars worth of drilling
tools stolen right off the rig, and in some cases
right out of the shop parking lot.
Throughout the metro areas, quite a few manhole lids
and other utility covers have disappeared as well.
Not to mention the bronze flower vases from several cemeteries.
The problem appears to be proportional to one's
proximity to Miami.

 

[GregLocock]

Oh, we are posting limericks now?

Cheers

Greg Locock

SIGlease see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[berkshire]

With regard to stealing electrical conductors,The company I work for purchased a new facility last year.
Before we could move into the building, we discovered that the copper thieves had removed half of the wiring in the building, pulling the wires right out of the conduits.
After talking to the insurance co., we started re-wiring the building and hired a security co to watch the place.
One evening the security guard heard a noise around the side of the building and went to investigate, he found a pair of bolt cutters welded to the main feed into the building. The thief was trying to cut the main earth/ground wire coming into the building and had contacted the hot wire as well. Unfortunately the thief was not there when the guard arrived.
The police were sure he/she had been burned and scoured the local hospitals with no luck.
B.E.

 

[escrowe]

Enginering an engineering limerick is too challenging for me.

What is a Limerick?
Anonymous

The limerick packs laughs anatomical
Into space that is quite economical.
But the good ones I've seen
So seldom are clean
And the clean ones so seldom are comical.

http://enpub.fulton.asu.edu/structures/Limericks.htm

 

[ScottyUK]

lz5pl,

Yes, it is a massive problem here in the UK because the gains are large compared with the effort involved, the police are limited in their powers and mired in worthless paperwork, the guilty are defended by legal weasels paid for using public money, and the courts are run by senile old men who have lost their grip on reality. It is immensely annoying to the UK's law-abiding citizens and more so to those of us in the industry.

Kenat,

'meat wagon', 'rozzers'

I can tell you are a Brit!



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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!

 

[berkshire]

Things are definitely tightening up here in So' Cal where I live now, as far as scrap metal sales are concerned.
I took some old copper solar collectors to the scrap merchant, who promptly demanded to see two forms of identification before he would accept the panels, and then paid me with a check ( cheque ) which could only be deposited, not en cashed.
This should slow the copper cable "recyclers." down a little. I do not think it will stop them.
B.E.

 

[davidbeach]

If they really wanted to do something about metal theft, your payment would have been deposited in an escrow account with the state and then you would have received a check from the state 90 days later. No drug addict will be willing to wait 90 days for payment.