ME27272727
Mechanical
I'm curious to get your thoughts on this. Are these engineering companies just doing what everyone else does too but happened to be collateral damage in an NY corruption prone focused on others, or did they cross the line?
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Political Contributions and Ethics - NY Corruption 1
- Thread starter ME27272727
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I'm curious to get your thoughts on this. Are these engineering companies just doing what everyone else does too but happened to be collateral damage in an NY corruption prone focused on others, or did they cross the line?
Were the engineering companies unethical, YES.
Were the government officials unethical, YES.
Does this happen every day, Unfortunately YES.
I have been working in State government for over 20 years as an engineer. In some ways, the ethics that "normal" working employees vs. the ethics of elected officials is ridiculous. There have been times during my career that we were told that we couldn't even accept a drink (e.g., bottled water, soft drink or coffee) at a facility during a meeting. At the same time, companies are giving tons of cash to political campaigns, and they later receive multi-million dollar contracts. I don't know about you, but common curtsey (e.g., a drink) is not going to unduly influence my decision towards a facility; but I would think that a major financial contribution could influence someone who's an elected official (even more so if the money went straight to the person's bank account).
Were the government officials unethical, YES.
Does this happen every day, Unfortunately YES.
I have been working in State government for over 20 years as an engineer. In some ways, the ethics that "normal" working employees vs. the ethics of elected officials is ridiculous. There have been times during my career that we were told that we couldn't even accept a drink (e.g., bottled water, soft drink or coffee) at a facility during a meeting. At the same time, companies are giving tons of cash to political campaigns, and they later receive multi-million dollar contracts. I don't know about you, but common curtsey (e.g., a drink) is not going to unduly influence my decision towards a facility; but I would think that a major financial contribution could influence someone who's an elected official (even more so if the money went straight to the person's bank account).
I'd say a lot of the issue is in the details, and that article is pretty vague about what actually went on, who did what with who, etc. Hiring somebody else's advisor as a consultant can be pretty innocuous or a bribe-scheme or who knows what. The #1 question I would ask is "What did that consulting actually consist of?"
JedClampett
Structural
As long as people have the power to award monetary compensation to several equally qualified entities, there will be the temptation to "tilt the scales" using unsavory means. Is a dinner a bribe? Round of golf? Tickets to a ball game? Playing on their softball team? Sponsoring their bowling league team?
We're told early on that people would rather do business with people they know, rather than strangers. That seems logical. But how do you get to know people? There's almost always some cost involved. And it seems rude to invite someone for a drink and then split the check.
There's a thousand ways to influence someone and the line is always moving. The obvious ones are easy (give me a million dollars and I'll give you the project). It's the more subtle ones that are tough.
i.e. We're always proposing on projects to former employees of a certain firm. They seem to get more than their fair share of projects. Is that unethical? Should former employees of a company be allowed to decide on whether they get a project? Or maybe we're just whining?
We're told early on that people would rather do business with people they know, rather than strangers. That seems logical. But how do you get to know people? There's almost always some cost involved. And it seems rude to invite someone for a drink and then split the check.
There's a thousand ways to influence someone and the line is always moving. The obvious ones are easy (give me a million dollars and I'll give you the project). It's the more subtle ones that are tough.
i.e. We're always proposing on projects to former employees of a certain firm. They seem to get more than their fair share of projects. Is that unethical? Should former employees of a company be allowed to decide on whether they get a project? Or maybe we're just whining?
moltenmetal
Chemical
Campaign finance reform is a good start.
Here in Canada, we got it at the federal level as a result of a rivalry between a former prime minister and his finance minister who was vying for his job. Guy A gave the nation a beautiful present, even though his intention was to screw guy B.
At the provincial level, we're not there yet- Ontario's embroiled in a scandal about political donations from corporations who receive large amounts of government subsidy, one example being the fuel ethanol industry.
At the municipal/city level, the issue is the accepting of donations from non-residents. This is a big issue, with major developers funding the campaigns of mayors and city councillors.
Conflict of interest guidelines exist, but don't extend fully to campaign donations- yet.
It's important though that we maintain the ability of people to run for office without having to be personally wealthy- otherwise we'll still get an oligarchy, just by a different means. Some would argue that we're already there...
Here in Canada, we got it at the federal level as a result of a rivalry between a former prime minister and his finance minister who was vying for his job. Guy A gave the nation a beautiful present, even though his intention was to screw guy B.
At the provincial level, we're not there yet- Ontario's embroiled in a scandal about political donations from corporations who receive large amounts of government subsidy, one example being the fuel ethanol industry.
At the municipal/city level, the issue is the accepting of donations from non-residents. This is a big issue, with major developers funding the campaigns of mayors and city councillors.
Conflict of interest guidelines exist, but don't extend fully to campaign donations- yet.
It's important though that we maintain the ability of people to run for office without having to be personally wealthy- otherwise we'll still get an oligarchy, just by a different means. Some would argue that we're already there...
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- #7
drawoh,
Part of the problem nowadays is not knowing who's paying for the advertising. In the US, you get a lot of advertisements from a group who's relationship with a candidate is uncertain. The only time you can be assured that the candidate is familiar with the group is if you hear "I'm So-and-so, and I approve of this message/advertisement" I guess if you want to do some research, you might find out who's funding these groups or if they are an "independent" group.
Part of the problem nowadays is not knowing who's paying for the advertising. In the US, you get a lot of advertisements from a group who's relationship with a candidate is uncertain. The only time you can be assured that the candidate is familiar with the group is if you hear "I'm So-and-so, and I approve of this message/advertisement" I guess if you want to do some research, you might find out who's funding these groups or if they are an "independent" group.
bridgebuster
Active member
Like father, like son. When Mario C was governor it was the same way, no contribution no work.
"If someone is running an expensive campaign, don't vote for them. This is especially true if you cannot see how they can afford the campaign."
The people behind the Citizens United decision can take credit for that, giving companies the same "right" to free speech as people, and unlimited and undocumented donations. That was a black day in SCOTUS
TTFN
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!
faq731-376 forum1529
The people behind the Citizens United decision can take credit for that, giving companies the same "right" to free speech as people, and unlimited and undocumented donations. That was a black day in SCOTUS
TTFN
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!
faq731-376 forum1529
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