pipe inspect/cleaning 1

[cmk461]

OK...I'm an aerospace guy who has suddenly been asked to design a small bio-diesel tank farm. So, obviously, I'm not familiar with petro chemical or standard piping practices. But you do what you have to do so....My first question really is about inspection and cleaning. Do I need to design the piping system so that it can be opened up periodically for routine maintenance? How often would this kind of internal inspection occur (standard industry practice)?

 

[BigInch]

"My first question really is about inspection and cleaning."

Save that one for later.

My first question is what design specification are you using? Do you have a copy? B3.3? It is a stated in the code that you are required to have experience with the application of the code in order that you can perform a design using that code.

I strongly advise against this folly. It is not a situation in which you should suddenly find yourself. It should not happen until after you have about 5 years experience at designing chemical plants and piping under some engineer with 15 years or more of experience himself.


"Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
***************

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

 

[pennpiper]

cmk461 "Aerospace"
Let's say you just got on an airplane. It is one of those BIG 747s. You settle in your seat. Row 73, Seat A.

While you are still at the gate here comes a flight attendent down the aisle. She stops at your row and says to you, "Go up front, you are going to be the pilot for this flight." You say "I'm not familiar with flying a plane or standard flight practices. But you do what you have to do so."

Would you put 400 peoples lives in danger? No!
If a novice gets involved in the designing of a process plant that is located close to a populated area and something happened because the design was wrong then many more than 400 people are at risk.
You need to tell your boss to find someone else.

 

[Unotec]

I don't think you have to do internal inspections very often, unless you're handling abrasive materails. With bio-diesel I think you're safe in this regard.
I'd be much more concerned about piping specs and welding.
Bio-diesel? I agree withe BigInch, avoid this folly.

<<A good friend will bail you out of jail, but a true friend
will be sitting beside you saying ” Damn that was fun!” - Unknown>>

 

[BigInch]

penpiper,
I was thinking of going that route, "You're sitting in a 747 ... 45,000 ft... -80ºC ... somewhere over the far North Atlantic... and somebody tells you that BigInch designed the fuel system to B1.4 & A53"

uotec, depends on the bio-type you're making it with. Some of it can get pretty cruddy on the way through.

"Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
***************

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

 

[Unotec]

Well, you could design the system to ASME pressure piping standard (B31.3??) and make it kinda bomb poof, couldn't you?
As for the cruddy one, then you need to make provisions for maintenance flushing, not actually opening the pipe and cleaning it, I don't think.
If it is only a tank farm, this should be a low pressure, low temperature application. A sched 40-80 CS piping should suffice.
But we are talking just piping, there are a bunch of things that have to be considered when building a tank farm other than just the piping.

<<A good friend will bail you out of jail, but a true friend
will be sitting beside you saying ” Damn that was fun!” - Unknown>>

 

[cmk461]

No worries about this thing "crashing and burning". They only want me to put together some high level concept stuff. (Great at cocktail parties! Amaze your friends!)
I just want my stuff to at least be in the realm of normal industry practice. I've been told there will be a process engineer to handle the final designs later.

 

[BigInch]

Number of tanks, their volumes, retained volumes behind dikes and safety distances between tanks, and to tank farm boundaries, fire control access, tank separation distances, pipe access are all important considerations and help determine layout for land accquisition, which might be a priority. So read up on NFPA, and local fire regulations.

Whiskey - neat, please.

"Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
***************

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

 

[Unotec]

And alarm systems and safety equipment interconnected. Fans, LEL and H2S heads.... You're in for a ride. Make sure you're wearing a seatbelt

<<A good friend will bail you out of jail, but a true friend
will be sitting beside you saying ” Damn that was fun!” - Unknown>>

 

[brimmer]

Don't know if you will have all above ground piping, below ground piping, or most likely both. You can install pigging launchers/recievers for maintenance pigging and possibly intellegent pigging should you want detailed internal inspection capabilities on some lines perhaps. Maintenance pigging will help keep the lines clean (it is the areas of liquid hold up which would be of most concern). You can do things to facilitate this by keeping all bends to 1.5 D or greater. Other inspection technologies are available such as robotic crawlers or bi-directional pigs, guided wave etc. which can help your inspections. Inspection frequency will be determined by local or federal regulations depending on what/where you are/have. Normal industry methodology is to complete a risk assessment to help determine inspection frequencies/where to concentrate your inspection activities. In may companies this piping is ignored and never gets inspected, to other companies completing detailed internal inspections every 5 years. API 570 can help give guidleines as far as inspections/expected corrosion locations.