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Ocean Dams 3

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Rample

Rample

Civil/Environmental
Jul 25, 2024
4
PXL_20240526_205419063.MP_gdrfou.jpg
a concept to use the ocean as a hydroelectric dam. The water passes over a series of turbines underground before being collected in large chambers to be converted to steam (desalination) then pumped to the surface over long distances or near the plant. Makes use of geothermal energy for further energy extraction and produces large volumes of fresh water. First draft
 
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Energy balance?

Regards

Mike

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand
 
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There is a proof of concept, closed cycle, thermal siphon pilot plant in operation in western Alberta.
Google it.
There is a full scale plant planned or under construction in Europe based on the pilot plant findings.

Water seeks it's own level, so what goes down comes back up.
If thermal energy heats the water at the bottom of the loop, it is possible to start self sustaining circulation.
Cold water down, lighter hot water up a separate riser.
The driving force is the different SG of hot water to cold water.
Trying to extract energy from from the cold water on the way down may extract more energy than supplied by the thermal siphon effect.
If you are trying to leave salts behind,they will soon block off your flow.

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Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!
 
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With regards to energy balance I haven't sat down and worked out what is produced at each stage in this process however it appears (if my intuition is correct) that the potential output is arbitrarily large limited only by the volume of water passing through. The bottleneck appears to be the size of the evaporation chambers which themselves could be made large enough to accommodate a seemingly unlimited rate of flow. Another consideration is the durability of the turbines relative to the extreme pressures available from the ocean. At sufficient depth the amount of force applied could be strong enough to pull an ocean liner through a manhole. If I'm right this system could displace all other forms of energy production. Any thoughts regarding the limitations of this design? Regarding blockage due to the build up of salt I would imagine that can be fully mitigated via a conveyor belt leading to the surface.
 
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the potential output is arbitrarily large limited only by the volume of water passing through.
Click to expand...

I am indeed surprised that none of the 11 billion people that have lived in the last 50 years have come up with this idea.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
 
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You must be a big picture man like myself.
If you can visualize the BIG PICTURE, engineers can always work out the details.
I have a solution to the Nuclear Submarine threat that I'd like to share with you.
All we have to do is raise the temperature to the boiling point and all of the submarines will be forced to the surface.
You may ask;
"How will we raise the temperature of the ocean to the boiling point?"
That is just a detail and not my concern. The engineers will soon work out a solution.

--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!
 
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Continuing with the big picture concept of what this idea entails. Is it conceivable that the fresh water produced by this system could be channeled inland via tunnels then pushed to the surface, condensed, and then channeled to create an artificial river? Would this allow us to rewild deserts? A more professional opinion would be greatly appreciated
 
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Missed the big picture here. grin

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Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!
 
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Well, by the time you reach a certain age, you know change is bad. You have seen it over and over and over.

[lol]

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand
 
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Anyone here willing to design a more elegant version of what I have conceived? This was just a 5 minute doodle but I believe the implications could be considerable. Thanks for your time
 
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OP,
The very first response you received is where you will find the elegance.
Nothing you are proposing is new or original. It may seem that way to you because you think no one else is doing it but that does not mean it hasn't been considered. You have two main energy conversions going on here. The first is using elevation potential, i.e. the weight of water to drive a turbine to create mechanical energy, so to do work. The second conversion is using geothermal heat to heat water, with the expansion of the water into steam. I am unsure of why you have reverse osmosis, pressure driven, combined with steam generation for desalination.
Questions you should ask:
What is your main goal, energy production or desalination?
How can the energy conversion be done the most efficiently?
Can it be done cost effectively?

The only way you can test your idea, to distinguish it from an amusing pipe dream, is to do a mass energy balance. You are calling this a concept, it is not at all, nor is it big picture thinking. A concept has a basis, and you have none. All you have done is combined a bunch of technologies and called it a concept with zero design consideration.
(if my intuition is correct)
Click to expand...
If mine is correct, you know very little about each technology you have thrown together. First, you have to do the research to understand the technologies, then understand the physics for each technology, then run the numbers. Unless money is no object, and you can pay a bunch of scientists and engineers to do this for you, you have nothing without starting with the basics.
 
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One issue with geothermal energy has been that a large percentage of the energy extracted is needed to support pumping losses.
Eavor has developed a pumpless geothermal system.
Their demonstration plant is in Alberta.
Google;
Eavor-Lite.
With the benefit of large subsidies,a full scale plant is planned for Germany.
Google;
Eavor
PS An ocean is not needed.
Energy may be used to power desalination.

--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!
 
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Anyone here willing to design a more elegant version of what I have conceived? This was just a 5 minute doodle but I believe the implications could be considerable. Thanks for your time
Click to expand...

Do you have any engineering background? No serious engineer would think that a 5-minute doodle of random existing technologies could likely become a world-changing technology,



TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
 
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Wow, thanks for the memory jog. I hadn't thought about geothermal in decades.

I was doing some SCADA work for an electrochemical research firm in the late 1970's and ate lunch with the electrochemists Glenn, Jim, Carl, and Linda. Their DOE grant was funding tests to find an alloy that would provide a reasonable service life in the very corrosive geothermal flow stream at a California site.

The OPEC oil crisis had the US government throwing money at petroleum alternatives. I remember that lunch when they were laughing at a company press release stating "significant breakthroughs were expected within five years."

"just boiler plate. Gotta keep the funding flowing . . . . ."

Only one of those folks is still alive today and this thread prompted me to give him a call. Thanks again for the memory jog.
 
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WAROSS, you state:

"If you can visualize the BIG PICTURE, engineers can always work out the details."

Some reasonable questions, sir ...

1) Isn't that the phrase embossed on the backside of all MBA diplomas ?

2) You really have an MBA, don't you ? ... You simply don't want to tell us though

3) You have never done an energy/mass/materials balance, have you ? (But you are cock-sure that it's simple, right ?)

4) You did not graduate at the top of your thermodynamics engineering class, did you, sir ?

--- Awaiting your learned responses

MJCronin
Sr. Process Engineer
 
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Hi MJ.
Sorry.
I couldn't find the [Sarcasm} font.
And I was remiss.
I should have attributed:
Attributed to Will Rogers said:
In 1914 the Germans were sinking U.S. ships in the North Atlantic. It was a turkey shoot because the Germans had the U-boat and we didn’t. Somebody asked the American folk philosopher Will Rogers what we ought to do about it. He thought about it a moment and said, “Well, I think you should boil the ocean.” The man was incredulous. “Boil the ocean?” “Yes,” said Rogers. “I think if you heated up the Atlantic ocean, the submarines would rise to the surface and you could capture them.” “But how do you boil an ocean?” the man asked. Rogers responded, “I’ve given you the solution. It’s up to you to work out the details.”
Click to expand...
"I couldn't find the [Sarcasm} font."
If you are continuing in the same vein (sarcasm) then WELL DONE.

--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!
 
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I think the point is the big picture must be of something real, not of rainbows and unicorns. People can imagine things that are not real, and impossible to build. A big picture person needs only imagine a pliable real working system, and not need to work out the details.
Details like a round or square air filter are for the engineers to figure out.
 
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