need info on programming a GE CL200 kwattmeter 2

[brutus1955]

i am trying to setup a test cell for a prototype multimode
trigenerator, and was looking for a reasonalby priced means
of reading AC kwatt info.

i picked up a new GE CL200 meter head off of ebay, it is a new one, but appears to be not programmed?

it has a digital screen, and the little lever that you can
lift and push in on the plastic cover to switch modes.

it displays all 000000 in each mode,
and all 8888888 when i push in the mode button

so i assume these are not programmed from the factory?

where does one get this thing programmed, i just would like to read current kwatt draw and cummulative kwatt/hrs at least.

btw, it appears to have the optical port on the lower left front of the lexan cover as well, looks like a two port affair. the only other outside interface is the little lever/plunger which contacts a momentary switch inside.

any help would be appreciated
thanks
bob

 

[waross]

The economy model of these meters is not programmable. It Shows kWHrs. It may show demand kW. The most common use of the switches is to reset the demand every month.
The programmable version of these meters has an extra option card installed.
You need a programing cable. You need expensive programing software. You may need an internal battery to keep the internal clock running. This is not needed in the basic configuration but is needed for some configurations of data logging.
I have a project coming up next month where I will be looking for some specific answers to the same questions. ($$$) That is actual cost and availability of these components. I would like to use the programmable meters, but if the cost is too high for the extras, I may just go with the non programmable versions of the meters.


Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter

 

[brutus1955]

this version definetly has the cumulative kwatt/hrs
and it has real time power measured in kwatts.
both of which i need.

and about 3 others, such as day/month/year etc. which i could care the less about.

do you suppose i could take it to my utility company, and see it they can program it?

bob g

 

[waross]

You should be able to just energize it and start using it. Programming is for advanced features such as time of day metering and data lagging. Data logging includes logging interval and parameters to be logged.
The meter shop of the local utility may be willing to verify that the meter is good. You can hook 120 volts across the two top stabs and a light bulb across the two bottom stabs. If the meter is working you should see dash segments advancing across the bottom of the display. The meter may have been on E-Bay because it was faulty.
The kW is usually a demand. It increases but does not decrease until reset. If you need kW use the kH number to determine the average kW demand over a small interval of time, usually 10 or 20 seconds.
Measure the time for the advancing dashes to complete a cycle and start over. The kH is the number of Watt-Hours just used. Watt-Hours, not Kilo-Watt-Hours. Calculate the number of tme intervals in a hour and multiply by the kH. This is the number of Watt- hours per hour. Cancel the hours and you have the present demand in Watts.


Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter

 

[brutus1955]

thanks for the reply

the little scroll bar works just fine, it progresses left to right and then starts over again.

the head also cycles between each step, but does not read anything buy 00000's straight across.

the ebay seller claims to have sold dozens of these heads without any issues, he assumed they are all programmed to do the basic functions,

maybe this is just a bad one?

how much harmonic content can the power have, i am running genset that uses a harmonic winding, perhaps the harmonic content is too high for the head to lock onto?

i will try it tomorrow with mains power, 120vac and put a load across it and see if it kicks in. i guess if it does
i will need to progress to the next stage of development of the trigen, that being getting rid of the harmonic excitation winding and go with external and clean DC to excite with.

does that make sense?

bob g

 

[waross]

A kilo-Watt-hour is quite a bit of energy on a small test set. It is possible that you have not yet used 1 kWHr. A 100 watt load will take 10 hours to register 1 kWHr. But by all means check it on the mains and see if the kH calculation correlates with your test load. The kH value will be on the nameplate.

Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter

 

[brutus1955]

Thanks for all your help, it occurred to me that perhaps i would need to get to 1 kwatt/hr before it would read, but
it does scan past the kwatt load screen and it reads 0000.00
which leaves me to think that it should show me tenths and hundredths of a kwatt load?

also if while the generator is running and i pull the meter head and stuff it back in again i can get the kwatt load screen to change to some random number such as 000.11 (once)
and 000.23 (on another attempt) that number will clear if i lift the little lever and push in again,,then i get all 8888... again.

anyway, maybe there is another way around this mountain

maybe i should back up and start over, perhaps you have a better idea on how i can accomplish what i am after.

i want to run the generator at a fixed resistive load (so as to get close to unity power factor) and i have a gram scale setup so that i can accurately measure the fuel being consumed,, and i have an accurate stopwatch to time the test.

i have been using a clamp on meter to check both L1 and L2 currents, and a voltmeter to measure the 240vac.
the problems i am encountering are
1. when a cold breeze blows through the lab (my garage)it cools the resistive load bank (space heaters) and causes the current draw to shift up and down.
2. trying to get accurate measurements of upwards of a dozen different things all at a specific time is quite frankly more than i can do by myself,,, and i have no help available.

my hope was the kwatt/meter would eliminate the need to read volts, amps, then calculate kwatts

maybe you could suggest a reasonably accurate way of measuring the kwatt load i have on the genset? something
reasonable in price?

thanks for all your help so far

it is very much appreciated

bob g

 

[waross]

I have seen several failed electronic meters.
Try a test on the mains.
Download the manual and review the action of the switches. You may have it in service mode or something similar. I am far away from the electronic meters that I have encountered and I am relying on my spotty memory. The meters that I am familiar with cycle the display. They illumine every segment of the display and then cycle through kW, kWHr, ERROR, and any other parameters that have been programmed.


Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter

 

[brutus1955]

ok, i went out to the shop and carefully retested, same results,

i then pulled the head and put it in upside down, same result except the scroll went from right to left as would be expected.

i then pulled the head, and attached a resistance heater to the outlet of the meter, and then put mains 120vac on the input and then it works fine! counts kwatt/hrs and give me kwatt load as it changes from each screen. so the head is good to go.

i found a pdf file online for the 3 phase version of this meterhead, it talks about both the single and 3 phase heads in the writeup,

apparently the heads come programmed for a low harmonic environment but can be programmed for a harmonic rich environment as well. my bet is it is programmed for a low harmonic environment because power companies want it that way for residential customers, i guess that if the head was programmed for a high harmonic environment folks would be charged a higher amount than what they were being charged with the old mechanical meter the new digital one replaces?

so at this point i will have to either talk to someone that can reprogram this head for a harmonic rich environment or
i will have to supply excitation to the generator head via a clean DC source rather than the primative harmonic winding excitation that it uses now. the waveform of these genheads with the harmonic excitation is "how should i say it?" distorted and heavy on harmonics.

it appears for sure the meterhead does not like the quality of power coming off this genhead, so i either got to get the meter to accept poor wave form, or improve the waveform
or maybe both?

does this make sense?

thanks
bob g

 

[waross]

I'll give you a star for the feedback. I think that I just learned something. As I understand it the electronic meters sample the waveforms and use an algorithm to calculate the RMS values. I guess that your harmonics are not compatible with the sampling rate.
In residential applications there are not a lot of harmonics generated by the loads. What there are tend to be swamped down to a low value by the capacity of the supply grid. The grid supply is basically a clean waveform and harmonics on the grid are from other customers rather than from the grid itself.
With your generator supplying a distorted wave form the amplitude of the harmonics will be orders of magnitude higher.
Can you get a cheap electro-mechanical meter? The kH originated with the old meters and the value will be on the face of the meter. You will lose the decimal places in the display, so you will not have the precision of the electronic meter.

Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter

 

[brutus1955]

not so fast with the star,,

what you might have learned was i am an idiot!

having found a pdf file on this meterhead online, and reading it, the unit has a reed switch inside the cover at about the 3 oclock position

if you touch a magnet to the lexan cover and hold it there for a few seconds the meter changes screens and what do you know,, it will at least read out kwatts being drawn!

and looks to be quite accurate as well,

i need to read more, but looks like the first screen that comes up is the one that gives me the erroneous data
but seems to work fine on mains power.

going to call austin international tomorrow and see if i can get more info, or have them alter the programming to fit my needs.

anyway i cant thank you enough for your help
it is appreciated very much

bob g