Hybrid Battery Life

[sbc]

Anyone know what the life expectancy of the batterys
in the new hybrid cars is? What kind of enviromental
disaster will their disposal cause?

 

[ivymike]

while trying to find info on recycling NiMH batteries, I came across the following quote which I found amusing:

http://www.energizer.com/products/faq.asp?q=15

Is lithium safe for the environment?
Yes. Much environmental concern centers on heavy metals. Lithium is the lightest metal known.

 

[GregLocock]

Typical traction batteries are good for 500-1500 cycles. I wouldn't expect too much of a disaster, I imagine that most of the metal stuff could be recycled, and the casings could be re-used.

Quite how much energy that would take is a moot point, the whole life energy consumption of many environmentally 'preferred' systems (windmills, solar cells, etc) is difficult to work out, and rather depressing. Cheers

Greg Locock

 

[mgithens]

I offer this

http://www.europeanhonda.demon.nl/honda_insight_firstdrive.htm

maybe not definitive, maybe hearsay... but that seems to be what I had heard. I also remember running across some info that said that the insight's batteries were nothing more than sleeves of D cell or similar batteries. Again, this is stuff I found on the internet, so take it for what it is worth.

Anyway, this guy states they are expecting 10 years, no direction as to what 10 years means. I do recall that I was impressed that the Prius has better mileage, better room, better acceleration... and it is automatic, but the first Insights were standard ONLY and got slightly better mileage. The new automatic Insights do not get as good as the Prius (which holds 4 people comfortably).

I also would like to point out that at least the originals of each vehicle, that the Prius was a SULEV, whild the Insight was only qualified as a ULEV. (Super Ultra Low Emission Vehicle vs. Ultra Low Emission Vehicle) This is a tough market - but this doesn't help buyers. Why isn't the smaller, sleeker, slower vehicle (Insight) less poluting??

 

[ivymike]

I don't agree that the Insight is slower:
..........Insight Prius
0-60 time...10.7......14....sec
top speed...112.......97....mph

Also, your definition of "slightly" seems to be different than mine. The Insight w/ manual trans gets 68mpg highway, vs 45mpg for the Prius. In city driving, the Prius gets 52mpg vs 61mpg for the insight. So the Insight gets 51% better economy on the highway, 17% better in the city (with manual transmission). For the CVT-equipped Insight, the numbers are 57 city, 56 highway, which puts it at 24% better on the highway and 10% better in the city.

http://carpoint.msn.com

http://www.auto.com/reviews/dfp_111898_toyota_prius.htm

http://www.insightcentral.net/faq-performance.html

I'd also like to correct a misstatement made by the guy who wrote the site you referenced. The Insight is not a "serial" hybrid (I assume he meant "series," although perhaps the car is small enough to be a "cereal" hybrid). Since the electric and gasoline engines can simultaneously drive the wheels, it's got to be a parallel hybrid. A true series hybrid would have the gas engine completely separated from the drivetrain (as part of a gen-set).

The Insight's battery pack comes with an 8 year / 80,000 mile full-coverage warranty. It is, I suppose, somewhat similar to your description. The battery pack is made up of 120 1.2v NiMH batteries in series. The energy storage of each cell is higher than what you'd typically find in a NiMH D-cell, if I'm not mistaken, at 6.5Ah. (Typical NiMh flashlight batteries are in the neighborhood of 2Ah or less, if I remember right.

If you want the extra space offered by the Prius (and it's by no means "roomy&quot, but would prefer even more room, zippier performance, and better fuel economy, perhaps you'd be well advised to wait for the Civic Hybrid, which is supposed to come out this fall.

Cheerio.

 

[mgithens]

Part of my information comes from people who actually own the car. Some say they can attain the magical high mileage, but the EPA doesn't push the throttle for you. In regular style driving, it is tough to get those posted numbers. (city... highway is strictly speed and load related)

My car says 19 city and 29 highway... my best city tank was almost 16... my best all around never broke 25. So I guess driver input can be weighted higher than EPA.

I was extremely interested in buying one of these. I drove the Prius and looked at the Insight. The Prius retains some of the practicality of a Neon or Sentra or Civic, but the Insight is just a CRX on a diet. I decided that the development is slight immature and will definitely be on the bandwagon when 30+mpg SUVs hit the market.

I wonder if the "rice" boys are gonna hop these up. I would love to hear "Yo boy, I got a 50 shot of ntrous and a 3-farad capacitor." I guess this is the stuff my kids will brag about in high school...

 

[ivymike]

hmm, maybe the hybrids are different, but I've always looked at the EPA figures as a reasonable, but slightly low, estimate of the mileage that I'd get. My 97 civic, for example, was supposed to get 37mpg on the highway. At a typical hurry-to-get-there cruise, that's about right. If I drive the way I do on a long trip (65mph steady), it can get as much as 41mpg. Around Yellowstone, where the speed limits are all 45 mph, I got nearly 50mpg.

 

[evelrod]

I rather like the Honda offerings if for no other reason than appearance. The current Toyota eco offerings make me gag. Different strokes for different folks. As to mileage, our current Lincoln LS(definitely NOT and eco car) delivers better than 20 city(limited driving) and less than 25 hwy AVERAGE (on board computer) in the last 28,000 miles. driven at 85mph +/- on our freeways (yes, its that fast around here most of the time). Simply put, it is hard to justify buying one of the hybrids as an economy measure only. It would seem one would need some other incentive, much like buying a 'Harley' instead of a 'motorcycle'.

As to the economy of driving---I drove a 1960 Austin Healy Sprite from Long Beach, California to the east coast and back in 1970 averaging 60mph and 39.9 mpg for the overall trip!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I rode a Kawasaki KZ-650 Custom motorcycle from Los Angeles, California to Mexico City and back averaging 40.1 mpg (don't have average speed, too many stops).

Even at the current inflated fuel prices, gasoline is CHEAP.
When I was 21 and fresh out of school fuel cost was about 7.5 gallons per hours pay (major brand)---today I can buy 18 gallons per hours pay based on my PENSION.
Min wage 1960 approx. $1.00/$.32 =3.125 gallons
Min wage 2001 approx. $6.25/$1.32=4.73 gallons


Rod

PS---NOBODY, not even the street hustlers, will work for less tha $8,00 an hour here in California.