Fire Engine loading vs. Garbage Truck loading 3

[ajk1]

1. For many decades codes have required a design live load of 12 kPa (250 psf) on slabs subject to fire engine loading. I believe that over the decades the fie engines have become heavier. Is anyone aware of whether there has been any review of whether that loading is still appropriate?

2. About 25 years ago someone told me that refuse trucks were heavier than fire engines. Has anyone any current data on this?

3. Is it appropriate to design slabs subject to refuse truck loading for the same load as fire engine loading i.e. 12 kPa?

I realize that I could research this out by calling garbage truck companies, and municipal fire departments, but they may not be keen on speaking to me. I was hoping perhaps someone has already researched this out.

 

[bridgebuster]

Here are loads for various NYC fire trucks. In my department we did a project for the sanitation department but I don't have the garbage truck loads with me. If it can wait until Wednesday, it appears I'll be snowed in at home until then.

 

[bridgebuster]

I found the attached in an e-mail: A typical representation of a NYC garbage truck. Total loaded weight is 75K; front axle 18K

 

[SteelPE]

I used this a long time ago when I had a large suspended slab where fire trucks could park. Don't know if this will help or not. Check chapter 16.

https://www.denvergov.org/Portals/696/documents/2011_Amendments_Final.pdf

 

[racookpe1978]

I would point out that the probability of a fire truck being overloaded is near zero, but that the probability of one being loaded up right to its maximum design load is quite high.

Thus, if a pumper weighted 73,000 fully loaded with people and hoses and equipment and full of water, it will probably weight that much (73,000) fully loaded. But you wouldn't find one weighing 95,000. A newer pumper will almost be heavier than than old ones ... These things aren't going to get smaller when new equipment is bought.

The probability of a garbage truck being overloaded is near 100%. The operators are going to be able to cram as much stuff in the box as will fit. Then they will compress it and cram in some more. (Or it will be very lightly loaded.) The stuff that will get crammed inside is unweighed, unmonitored, and unknown.

So your margin for error for garbage rucks should be much higher than for fire trucks. On the other hand, the garbage trucks are weighed to set disposal charges, so you would have a record. Maybe.

 

[ajk1]

To bridgebuster - yes I heard about the storm heading your way and they were expecting a metre of snow! That should make life interesting. Here in Toronto no snow is forecast. Toronto storm weather seems generally much more moderate than New York's, although Toronto may be colder. The Indians knew what they were doing when they chose Toronto for their camp. Hope you get thru it without hardship.

The first attachment that you sent is very interesting because it is virtually the same total weight as I have in my records from 1998 for the Toronto area fire truck... also interesting that this is the Tower Ladder truck that weighs the most and not the pumper truck.

Your second attachment gives only the dimensions of the garbage truck and not its weight, but I assume that you got the 75,000 pounds from something that you did not send. So it seems that the garbage truck is the same weight as the fire truck?

racookpe1978 - you sent the index, but I do not have the Denver Code. But I doubt that it has anything in it that other codes do not have, but thanks for trying.

 

[Ingenuity]

you sent the index, but I do not have the Denver Code

SteelPE's link did have the relevant chapter, not just the index.

Here are the relevant pages:

Page 29: Platform truck -

Page 30: Ladder truck -

 

[bridgebuster]

ajk1 - I made it in, whether I'll make it back home to NE Pennsylvania is another story. Anyway, the second post was the axle configuration for a typical NYC garbage truck. I noted that the weight is 75K, with 18k front axle load. I checked a set of drawings for a marine transfer station here in the city; the design load was AASHTO HS25 or two 24k axles spaced 12'-4" apart.

 

[ajk1]

To Ingenuity - ok, thanks, that is helpful.
To bridgebuster - ok, thanks. Looks like you both agree that the heaviest garbage truck is very nearly the same weight loaded as the heaviest fire truck, although as has been pointed out the garbage truck can be overloaded. Has it started snowing there yet?

 

[bridgebuster]

It's snowing hard but no accumulation yet. The worst is supposed to start later this morning. I'm off to a meeting now: A contractor is bringing his precast supplier - from upstate NY; 200 miles north of NYC; they may get here but I don't think they're going to get back home night.

 

[ajk1]

ok. No snow here and none forecast! I will watch the news tonight to see what is going on down your way. Sounds like it may be interesting.

 

[bridgebuster]

As of 6:45 AM the storm hype was overblown- pun intended. About 8 inches in Queens.

 

[ajk1]

Yes I heard on the news this morning that one of the network news weathermen apologized that they got it wrong. Good to hear things turned out not so bad.

 

[bridgebuster]

The TV weather people were all blaming the National Weather Service. The news reports were somewhat comical because it seemed they didn't know what to talk about. Thanks for your concern.

 

[dcarr82775]

Why not look at AASHTO loading at least for magnitudes of vehicle/axle weights? Compare it to a 250psf load for your conditions? I have found bending is typically ok, but shear can be an issue with the heavier vehicle loads on structures designed for uniform loading.