Extrude to surface not updating in assy's

[cwsink]

Hello,

I have created library components of SMC guided cylinders from the downloads on their site. I created a design table for all the stroke lengths in each component (Rod & extruded body) and in the assembly. The length of each component is determined by an Extrude To Surface feature with the surface being a plane in the assembly.

The problem we're having is that when the cylinder assembly is in another assembly, the components don't update when you switch to a different stroke length (configuration). E.g. if I switch from a 75mm stroke to a 100mm stroke, the body and rod show up too short. Multiple rebuilds will not correct this. The only fix is to open the cylinder assembly itself, then the component sizes correct.

This is a large inconvenience for us. It seems that something is not acting right, but maybe its because of the extrusion to a surface? I really hate to go through and specify the component lengths in the DT because of the risk of error and time.

Is there another way to overcome this? Maybe this is a bug that needs reported?

Thank you,

Craig Sink
Mechanical Engineer
Force Design, Inc.

 

[handleman]

Is your main assembly in large assembly mode? If the cylinder components are loaded lightweight they won't update.

 

[cwsink]

No, we have the problem with components fully loaded. What's odd to me is that I can save the components so that each configuration is the correct length (each config is a different length) so when the configuration is selected in the assembly, it seems like if it doesn't rebuild, it would default to the saved length which is correct. This isn't what happens. It's like it rebuilds, but it rebuilds incorrectly???

Hope that made sense.

Craig Sink
Mechanical Engineer
Force Design, Inc.

 

[Theophilus]

What would happen if you edited the cylinder in the context of the assembly, and then offset your planar surface with a distance of zero? Then your surface is built-in to your part file and will update when the assembly is updated/opened? If there's not a problem with this solution logistically for you, perhaps it would work?



Jeff Mowry

http://www.industrialdesignhaus.com

Reason trumps all. And awe trumps reason.

 

[cwsink]

That probably would work, I just wanted to avoid the time it would take to do that, and potential errors (we have several different sizes with the same condition)

Craig Sink
Mechanical Engineer
Force Design, Inc.

 

[JMirisola]

If I'm reading your post correctly, Craig, it sounds like the issue is with your part configs. It's been a while, but I recall having problems where I had assembly configs that controlled part configs when using said assembly in another (higher) assembly. SW couldn't (wouldn't?) dig down that many layers. I'm trying to remember the exact circumstances, but I'm drawing a blank.
Now I may not be completely understanding what's going on, but why can't you determine the stroke length solely in the assembly?

Jeff Mirisola, CSWP
CAD Administrator
SW '07 SP1.0, Dell M90, Intel 2 Duo Core, 2GB RAM, nVidia 2500M

http://designsmarter.typepad.com/jeffs_blog

 

[cwsink]

Jeff,

That's how it is setup. The assembly has planes that define certain lengths. The components use extrusions that terminate at those planes in-context in the assembly. But that's what's giving me problems. If I've got 2 different stroke lengths specified in the same assembly, the one shows correctly, and the other shows the correct configuration names, but the actual geometry sizes are wrong (they are the same as the other instance). See the image below to clarify.

In the first image, there are 2 instances of the cylinder. The top is 200mm stroke, and the bottom a 25mm stroke (specified by the...-25 at the end of the part number). As you can see, the 2 cylinders are shown with the same geometry, even though the configurations are different. If I actually open the cyl assembly, they will correct.

It appears like the error you had noticed in the past is what I'm up against.

http://img290.imageshack.us/img290/5581/smccylrs4.jpg

http://img368.imageshack.us/img368/4933/smccylrv4.jpg

Craig Sink
Mechanical Engineer
Force Design, Inc.

 

[JMirisola]

Here's something else that I used to run into when inserting different configs of the same assembly if said instances were mated to a common point. Each instance had to be set to flexible.
I wish I were familiar with the cylinders you're working with. Is the rectagular body supposed to be smaller in the 25mm stroke version?

Jeff Mirisola, CSWP
CAD Administrator
SW '07 SP1.0, Dell M90, Intel 2 Duo Core, 2GB RAM, nVidia 2500M

http://designsmarter.typepad.com/jeffs_blog

 

[cwsink]

Yes, the second image was incorrect. Below is the correct image which shows the plane that the body should be extruded to ([is] extruded to if you open the cylinder assembly). Basically, the 25mm stroke is 175mm shorter than the 200mm stroke in both the body and rod.

http://img433.imageshack.us/img433/2581/smccyl2gc3.jpg

Craig Sink
Mechanical Engineer
Force Design, Inc.

 

[ctopher]

Check your planes and locations of surfaces one at a time. Seems that when a config changes, another does also, changing locations of planes and surfaces. Sometimes if too much is going on, it's hard to see the problem.

Chris
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 10-27-06)

 

[JMirisola]

Ok.
It seems to me that rather than having an in context feature, you should just let the configuration drive the lengths and have the face of the body mate to that plane, or to whatever it needs.

Jeff Mirisola, CSWP
CAD Administrator
SW '07 SP1.0, Dell M90, Intel 2 Duo Core, 2GB RAM, nVidia 2500M

http://designsmarter.typepad.com/jeffs_blog

 

[handleman]

If I've got 2 different stroke lengths specified in the same assembly, the one shows correctly, and the other shows the correct configuration names, but the actual geometry sizes are wrong (they are the same as the other instance)

This is your problem. Unless every component of the cylinder has one configuration per configuration of the cylinder assembly this will not work. The reason is that one configuration of a part cannot be two different lengths at the same time.

 

[cwsink]

Handleman,

Maybe I didn't make that clear, but that is what I have. There is a different configuration for each length in each component. The actual length is determined by a plane in the assembly which the feature extrudes to (in-context).


Craig Sink
Mechanical Engineer
Force Design, Inc.

 

[JMirisola]

That's not true, handleman. I've had assemblies where I've used one part with varying lengths inside the assembly. Most notably on a deck design. Multiple lengths for one size board (i.e. 2x8 pressure treated lumber).

Jeff Mirisola, CSWP
CAD Administrator
SW '07 SP1.0, Dell M90, Intel 2 Duo Core, 2GB RAM, nVidia 2500M

http://designsmarter.typepad.com/jeffs_blog

 

[JMirisola]

oops...sorry handleman...I just realized I misread what you said.

Jeff Mirisola, CSWP
CAD Administrator
SW '07 SP1.0, Dell M90, Intel 2 Duo Core, 2GB RAM, nVidia 2500M

http://designsmarter.typepad.com/jeffs_blog

 

[handleman]

Can you post a copy of one of your cylinder assemblies with parts?

 

[cwsink]

They're too big...22Mb for the assembly. There's a lot of configurations.


Craig Sink
Mechanical Engineer
Force Design, Inc.

 

[SBaugh]

So let me see if I understand how you have this set up.

You have assembly planes (not part planes) that the SW part extrudes up too - is that correct?

SW07 requires you select the config used per config, because the "in-use" option was removed.

Do you have flexible turned on one or both files? IF so, try making them rigid and see if that helps.

I did stuff like this for many years and made some very complex designs and automation... so I understand what you are doing, but it is very hard to understand how you have it setup without the files.

If you get a chance tomorrow Craig, have your college move the files up to our FTP site (if possible) and I will take a look at this.

Regards,

Scott Baugh, CSWP

http://www.scottjbaugh.com

faq731-376

 

[handleman]

Mooload.com can handle up to 500MB files.

 

[cwsink]

Hello,

Below is a link to the files.

http://www.mooload.com/new/file.php?file=files/281106/1164721371/SMC_MGPM50N_CYL.zip

Scott, they are on your FTP site; I had sent an email, but I think someone else responded to it. I am extruding to assembly planes, therefore an in-context extrusion for each component. The cylinder assemblies are NOT flexible.



Craig Sink
Mechanical Engineer
Force Design, Inc.