Expansion joint design help, for acid weak.

[drakkkko]

Hello everyone,

Can anyone give a hand with a Expansion joint design?. This Exp Joints is for Acid Weak (concentration of 25%), at 49°C (120°F), pipes diam= 6".Pipe (material=FRP)pressure is 350 KPa.
I looked for some technical brochure, in the web, with stiffness data but I couldn't find anything.

Thanks in advance.

 

[pennpiper]

drakkkko,
Your post brings up a few questions.

1. Why do you think you need an Expansion Joint (XJ)?
2. Can you provide a sketch or picture of the system with the XJ position shown?
If you cannot provide a sketch or picture:
3. Will the XJ be located in a horizontal pipe run or will it be in a vertical pipe run?
4. What do you intend the material of the XJ to be?
5. What is this line connected to on each end?
6. Does the P&ID indicate this is a "Do Not Pocket" line?

Sometimes its possible to do all the right things and still get bad results

 

[bimr]

Hyspan manaufactures expansion bellows. In addition, to what pennpiper noted, you have to know what the "weak acid" is to be able to select the materials of construction.

http://www.hyspan.com

http://www.hyspan.com/pdfs/TechNotes.pdf

 

[drakkkko]

Dear Pennpiper,

1. Why do you think you need an Expansion Joint (XJ)?
A: It's a existing one, but I can't have data from client. Is very difficult for me, because there is no a clear protocol. So I have had a guess, to flexibility calculation.

2. Can you provide a sketch or picture of the system with the XJ position shown?
A: No, I cann't.
If you cannot provide a sketch or picture:

3. Will the XJ be located in a horizontal pipe run or will it be in a vertical pipe run?
A: A horizontal pipe run.

4. What do you intend the material of the XJ to be?
A: Well, material is not relevant for flexibility calculation.

5. What is this line connected to on each end?
A: Begins in a tank and ends in a pump.

6. Does the P&ID indicate this is a "Do Not Pocket" line?
A: Don't indicate that. For pipe's flexibility calculation is relevant?

 

[pennpiper]

drakkkko,
- Your Client will not provide the data on the original XJ
- You are not allowed to provide a picture yet you have not provided a sketch or detailed description of the line routing.
- You claim the material (of the proposed XJ) does not matter.

However you have now said the line is a 6" FRP Pump Suction Line with an existing XJ somewhere in the line. You do not tell us where the Anchors or Guides are.
You may not know, but an Expansion Joint is useless if there are no Anchors or Guides.

You may also not know that the Coefficient of expansion for FRP is almost double that of Carbon Steel.

How can we help you if you are not able to give us critical information?

Based on what information you have provided it appears like you are fairly new to the piping engineering and design profession. It also appears to that you are a novice "standing in the middle of a very large room, surrounded by the enemy (the Client) and you have no support (a Company) behind you."

I am really concerned for you.


Sometimes its possible to do all the right things and still get bad results

 

[bimr]

Maybe this will help:

https://ceregister.uh.edu/ShowSchedule.awp?~~GROUP~COTPIP~Center+of+Technology+Literacy~COT