Ethics training 1

[SomptingGuy]

Completed mine yesterday. Almost as much fun as going to the dentist.

I can't help wondering if it should only be required that the top levels of management take this sort of thing.

- Steve

 

[jmw]

Management? Ethics?
Ha!
That's an oxymoron isn't it?

If it was like going to the dentist for you, it would probably be like attending a 3 day Kingdom Hall revival meeting for them (and they'd learn they are all eternally damned, but they probably knew that anyway.)

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[SomptingGuy]

I'm not going to swear or be contraversial in this forum, but...

I have 10 'O' Levels
I have 5 'A' Levels
I have a degree from a good place
I am a husband
I am a father
I am a homeowner
I am not stupid or greedy
I haven't smoked pot for quite a few years

Why does HR need to teach me about not touching people at work. Or not gossiping. Or giving away client confidential info. I'm not normally riled by the stupidity of management, but I am now. I wonder if it only happens in public companies, or if it's equally bad in privately owned ones.

- Steve

 

[looslib]

Ethics training is aimed at the lowest level of employee and then forced to be seen by all levels once a year to 'remind' us. There is so much that can be said in ethics training that is comon sense to the normal person. These training refreshers are aimed at the 4% who don't have ethics in their system.


"Wildfires are dangerous, hard to control, and economically catastrophic."

Ben Loosli

 

[SomptingGuy]

One question that didn't come up was:

"A colleague invites you into the vehicle test cell to see something on the CCTV. After a few seconds it gradually becomes apparent that it is horse and a lady. What do you do?"

- Steve

 

[TenPenny]

"Why does HR need to teach me about not touching people at work. Or not gossiping. Or giving away client confidential info."

Umm, probably because there are a stunning number of people who don't understand that, and it's not easy to tell who they are from a distance, so everybody gets run through the 'how to be someone with half a clue' courses.

 

[casseopeia]

Answer: If it's a live feed from a security camera, you ask him to make sure the DVR is getting it, then post it on YouTube. If it involves the boss, or a female related to the boss, you get another job, then post it on YouTube.

"Gorgeous hair is the best revenge." Ivana Trump

 

[SomptingGuy]

This scenario (horse/lady video) did happen to me once at work, not making it up. Very odd. Very unexpected.

- Steve

 

[KENAT]

Are the horse and the lady fiddling the books or something, else how is that really 'ethics' as such?

Are equestrian events really frowned upon that much by the automotive sector these days? I mean 100+ years ago they were the competition but I would have thought automotive could have been gracious over that victory for some time now.

We had to have 'sexual harassment training' a few years back. Lots of us joked about 'oh good, they're going to teach us how to sexually harass properly I was worried I wasn't up to par' - one really would think it should be 'sexual harassment prevention training'.

The worst was some of the training I had to

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[patprimmer]

Or you get a promotion and a pay rise and increased job security for so long as you or your partners in this crime have the only copies for not posting it on YouTube.

Seriously, how do you teach ethics. In my experience, people already know it by mid teens or they never get it. The clever ones who never get it make excuses for not getting it, like that's shrewd business and anyone who does not do it are naive. The dumb ones who never get it end up in jail.

Regards
Pat
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[SomptingGuy]

Serious answer:

They show you a load of typical work-place scenarios and then ask what you would do. Then you get some preachy crap about why your answer is right, once you've tried all the options until you get the right one. A half hour of nonsense to fill in a check box on some corporate spreadsheet.

It's not even legally binding as far as I can tell, so I could wake up one morning and decide to be unethical.

- Steve

 

[mauricestoker]

I think it reflects poorly on management and HR, like saying "we never considered ethics when we hired you, and we think there is a high enough probability that we exercised very poor judgment and brought on a bunch of unethical swine."

 

[SomptingGuy]

That video was a long time ago (c. 1994), but it has scarred me for life. Maybe I could sue??

- Steve

 

[jmw]

These training refreshers are aimed at the 4% who don't have ethics in their system.

I think Pat has already got there.
If these people don't have any ethics to begin with, they will be unaffected by such ethics training.

This is probably simply an HR exercise so HR can distance themselves from any "incidents" by saying that everyone knows what is expected.
Let's face it, HR need to be seen to be doing something management think is useful, not that anyone believes HR are much use for anything at all, except protecting management.

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[mauricestoker]

Was that the episode of "Mr. Ed" that never got aired? I always wondered why Wilbur didn't get married.

 

[JohnRBaker]

Years ago, our parent company (but not the one you see in my signature today) held a series of management classes one of with covered 'ethics'. Now these were not professionally organized classes but rather something put together by our executive management.

I was working in sales back then and so our sales VP was responsible for getting material and guest speakers and so on, so he thought, what could be better than inviting the corporation's chief consul to talk about ethical behavior. However, I don't think the VP was expecting what it was that he got. While the corporate attorney did spend time talking about the role that the legal department played in the corporation (note that we were part of a Fortune 500 company so this covered a lot of territory) and how as employees, particular managers in a sales organization that dealt with not only internal but also external relationships and opportunities, how we needed to be aware of the many legal issues that we might encounter and how his organization could help us.

However, it was when the discussion finally came around to 'ethics' that he sort of stunned at least our executive team. It was when he said that lawyers should never be expected to be experts on ethics that was when the wheels came off. He followed up by explaining that in a purely professional situation, ethics was 'outside' their area of responsibility. They are responsible for what's legal or not, which can be very different from what is considered to be ethical or not. Now he did admit that if one followed a strict code of ethics, one which was generally accepted by a large segment of the population that you would probably never need to worry too much about his people having to come and bail you out of some mess. However, he did explain that if we took the opposite extreme and did only which could be defended in court as being legal, that this would NOT automatically make you appear to having acted in an 'ethical' manner. In other words, just because something is LEGAL does not automatically make it ETHICAL in the minds of everyone concerned.

Anyway, it turned out to be one of the best 'classes' I ever took since we were able to really get into a discussion which forced us to look at things differently, so perhaps in the end maybe it was a good idea that we got to take this up with our chief consul as he was ready to dispel the misunderstanding of the relationship between ethics and the law.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
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[zdas04]

If it makes you feel any better, this garbage (the ethics training, not the horse and lady) has infiltrated the public ranks of professional engineering. To renew my P.E. I have to have 8 hours of ethics training every two years. Luckily they don't specify what constitutes "ethics training" so I can attend legal seminar's (one put on by the P.E. Board was really interesting, and the instructor said that he was the reviewer and would accept this class for the requirement) that look interesting.

When I worked for a big company I had an individual working for me that was the "coach" for "Partners in the Workplace" which was Femi-nazi propaganda that everyone was required to attend. Basically her course said that everyone had to be respectful of the needs of women, but that women were only obligated to be respectful of the needs of women. This person caused 95% of the problems in the team and did 5% of the work assigned to her. When I tried to fire her for non-performance (with a ton of documentation, warning letters, etc.) she went to my bosses boss with her lawyer (a woman oddly enough) and I was told to back off or I'd be the one fired. I will always despise single-issue people.

David

 

[SomptingGuy]

So those sores haven't healed yet then!

- Steve

 

[SomptingGuy]

My thread, my call.

Various people have left the company I work for. And some of them contact me as if we were still colleagues. What should I do? I like them, we had beers on many (often regular) occasions, but it is hard to know. One or two (four actually, at last count) are now customers. We have work stuff in common mainly. Difficult.

- Steve

 

[KENAT]

Sompting are you asking about Zdas or the lady with the equine?

Sorry, I'll get my coat.

From a legal point of view I get the vague requirement to show your company has addressed ethics and related issues so that when a middle manager abuses his 'authority' over his secretary or the CFO fiddles her accounting.... then their ass is at least partially covered. However, I'm pretty sure great long training sessions can't be the most effective approach.

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