I have a client who is a mid sized contractor. In the past he has brought up the idea of having me come into his office to teach his office staff and field superintendents the ins and outs of engineering. He doesn't want his guys to know how to design beams, but rather what to look for during construction to minimize errors and improve the product he delivers to his clients. Has anyone ever done this before or can someone recommend a place where I might find some information to teach such a class?
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Engineering Class 1
- Thread starter SteelPE
- Start date
JedClampett
Structural
This sounds like a great idea. I can't think of a place that you can get this information, unless RedVector has a a basic structural engineering course. Maybe there's a book, "Structural Engineering for Dummies" Heck, I should probably buy that.
How many sessions are you talking about? One lunch? Eight hours?
How many sessions are you talking about? One lunch? Eight hours?
- Thread starter
- #3
I was a bit reluctant to accept the assignment as I am not a teaching type.... I barely know enough to get by. Initially he is talking about one 3 to 4 hour class to see if we can get through the basics. If we need more or less time he will adjust accordingly. He doesn't want any power point presentations.... just for me to stand up in front of a white board and take them through the basics and answer any questions his guys may have.
This isn't expected to happen until July of August so I do have some time to put things together.
This isn't expected to happen until July of August so I do have some time to put things together.
I would take them through the basic steps of design for typical elements they would be working on...
Using a beam as an example...
Where the loads come from, strength material etc...reference a few codes along the way.
Most importantly and probably most relevant to them would be recognizing the assumptions about the site condition you make along the way of your design. Like support for the compression flange of the beam.
It might be worth asking him about some of the typical problems he runs into on site and then address those specifically.
Agreed that this is a good idea...I wish some of the contractors I work with would be that proactive.
Using a beam as an example...
Where the loads come from, strength material etc...reference a few codes along the way.
Most importantly and probably most relevant to them would be recognizing the assumptions about the site condition you make along the way of your design. Like support for the compression flange of the beam.
It might be worth asking him about some of the typical problems he runs into on site and then address those specifically.
Agreed that this is a good idea...I wish some of the contractors I work with would be that proactive.
Reminds me of a Dilbert cartoon I saw, "Teach me everything you know about engineering. I don't care if it takes all day." You are going to really have to reign in his expectations and limit a 3-4 hour class to a very narrow scope. Limit it to one type of building material. Maybe focus on the most common field mistakes that you have seen?
SteelPE:
That’s a great idea, and should be a good experience for you too. Make it a bag lunch deal, but you don’t get to eat, too busy talking and drawing. Make it a late afternoon continuing ed. and safety training meeting with pizza and a beer. And, it should be an ongoing exercise or event, because you will sometimes have to say, ‘I don’t know, I’ll get an answer to that question for the next meeting.’ You guys give your questions to your boss, and he’ll get them to me a week or two before the next meeting, and those will be the topics for that next meeting.
You should have no trouble coming up with topics; the very basics of Statics, Strength of Materials, properties and limitations of various construction materials. Look at the basic chapters and first few paras. of any of our basic ref. texts, for starter topics. What’s a beam, simple beam, uniform load and mid point load, moment and shear diagrams and max. locations for each? What is shear and bending stress, they’ve seen it in action and have not trouble grasping the basics, as they relate to their work. Two span cont. beam, draws load and moment to the mid reaction. What’s a column and how do they work? What’s a truss and how do they work? Loads and contrib. area, and how do we account for them, and importance of clean, clear load paths. A thousand details they build every day, how do they work, what’s important to us engineers about how they build that detail. Plan reading and review for meaning of details and notes. What topics does the boss want covered, what conditions and details give then fits? Give me your mail at rwhaiatcomcastdotnet. John Wiley & Sons, used to have a simplified design book series by Harry Parker; for example “Simplified Engineering for Architects and Builders,” “Simplified Design of Struct. Stl., Timber, Concrete, etc.
I’ve done that type of thing a couple times, in a small way, and it’s quite rewarding for all parties. It’s great to see the light go on, when they get it; or put what they kinda thought all together in a simple engineering way. If you have an enthusiastic boss, and he generates some interest in his employees it should be fun.
That’s a great idea, and should be a good experience for you too. Make it a bag lunch deal, but you don’t get to eat, too busy talking and drawing. Make it a late afternoon continuing ed. and safety training meeting with pizza and a beer. And, it should be an ongoing exercise or event, because you will sometimes have to say, ‘I don’t know, I’ll get an answer to that question for the next meeting.’ You guys give your questions to your boss, and he’ll get them to me a week or two before the next meeting, and those will be the topics for that next meeting.
You should have no trouble coming up with topics; the very basics of Statics, Strength of Materials, properties and limitations of various construction materials. Look at the basic chapters and first few paras. of any of our basic ref. texts, for starter topics. What’s a beam, simple beam, uniform load and mid point load, moment and shear diagrams and max. locations for each? What is shear and bending stress, they’ve seen it in action and have not trouble grasping the basics, as they relate to their work. Two span cont. beam, draws load and moment to the mid reaction. What’s a column and how do they work? What’s a truss and how do they work? Loads and contrib. area, and how do we account for them, and importance of clean, clear load paths. A thousand details they build every day, how do they work, what’s important to us engineers about how they build that detail. Plan reading and review for meaning of details and notes. What topics does the boss want covered, what conditions and details give then fits? Give me your mail at rwhaiatcomcastdotnet. John Wiley & Sons, used to have a simplified design book series by Harry Parker; for example “Simplified Engineering for Architects and Builders,” “Simplified Design of Struct. Stl., Timber, Concrete, etc.
I’ve done that type of thing a couple times, in a small way, and it’s quite rewarding for all parties. It’s great to see the light go on, when they get it; or put what they kinda thought all together in a simple engineering way. If you have an enthusiastic boss, and he generates some interest in his employees it should be fun.
briancpotter
Structural
Recognizing dangerous site conditions is really recognizing when something might fail. For the timeframe you're talking about, I think the best thing to do would be a short primer on the situations that cause something to fail - too close edge distances for bolts, concrete being put in tension, overly long members, too much restraint, etc.
For a longer class, you might have time to go into the basics of the theory - free body diagrams, shear/moment diagrams, etc. I've often said that 80% of engineering is being able to draw a free body diagram, but I think this would be hard to make stick (such that they'd be able to understand and apply it) in only 4 hours.
Brian C Potter, PE
For a longer class, you might have time to go into the basics of the theory - free body diagrams, shear/moment diagrams, etc. I've often said that 80% of engineering is being able to draw a free body diagram, but I think this would be hard to make stick (such that they'd be able to understand and apply it) in only 4 hours.
Brian C Potter, PE
Do it, I bet it will be fun.
Start with Newton (A Body at rest tends to stay at rest). Use 2D examples (plans, elevetions, etc.) with explainations of 3D implications. Summation of forces, moments. Different constuction materials - advantages, limitations. Foundations - shallow, deep, etc. Retaining walls. Again - summation of moments, forces.
If the boss does not want projections, prepare some handouts so that you don't have to draw everything on the white board. Use them as talking points and to keep the meeting focused.
Try to initiate some give and take. Don't underestimate your audiance. Some of these people will have "been there, done that", but may not know exactly why certain things were done the way they are.
3 to 4 hours will not be enough, but if you are informative and engaging, you will undorbtedly be asked to come back and explain in more detail some of the things that they often have to deal with.
gjc
Start with Newton (A Body at rest tends to stay at rest). Use 2D examples (plans, elevetions, etc.) with explainations of 3D implications. Summation of forces, moments. Different constuction materials - advantages, limitations. Foundations - shallow, deep, etc. Retaining walls. Again - summation of moments, forces.
If the boss does not want projections, prepare some handouts so that you don't have to draw everything on the white board. Use them as talking points and to keep the meeting focused.
Try to initiate some give and take. Don't underestimate your audiance. Some of these people will have "been there, done that", but may not know exactly why certain things were done the way they are.
3 to 4 hours will not be enough, but if you are informative and engaging, you will undorbtedly be asked to come back and explain in more detail some of the things that they often have to deal with.
gjc
msquared48
Structural
An architect in my area wanted me to come in and talk to a group of architects on this same thing 20 years ago, but the idea never got off the ground. It is a great idea as a communication tool, as long as fingerpointing does not get involved, as we all make mistakes here. It would also be a great forum to aqnswer their questions and concerns of your expectations, as get feedback from them on theirs.
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
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1
- #12
I have done this many times with a variety of subjects; pavements, concrete placement, roofing, welding, bolting, testing services, compaction, masonry, stucco, waterproofing, etc.
I have also taught these subjects and basic structural engineering to construction management students at University.
In my experience, I would like to see the contractor's personnel learn about construction before they learn about engineering. Most do not have a good grasp of the things in construction that most of them do wrong (concrete placement, compaction, stucco, waterproofing, welding certifications, etc.)
I probably have some outlines and info. Contact me through the site and I'll see what I can provide.
I have also taught these subjects and basic structural engineering to construction management students at University.
In my experience, I would like to see the contractor's personnel learn about construction before they learn about engineering. Most do not have a good grasp of the things in construction that most of them do wrong (concrete placement, compaction, stucco, waterproofing, welding certifications, etc.)
I probably have some outlines and info. Contact me through the site and I'll see what I can provide.
- Thread starter
- #13
Lots of good information here.
Like you guys are indicating, I am having a hard time not getting into specifics. They are only looking for a general overview of why things are done a certain way (rebar at the bottom of a footing, struts in joists, what makes a beam composite, good practices for reinforcing a beam etc.....). They don't want to get too deep into the theoretical stuff (which I don't think I could do). I know the GC is bringing in other people as well (he mentioned something about bringing in someone who know the ins and outs of lumber grading).
Like you guys are indicating, I am having a hard time not getting into specifics. They are only looking for a general overview of why things are done a certain way (rebar at the bottom of a footing, struts in joists, what makes a beam composite, good practices for reinforcing a beam etc.....). They don't want to get too deep into the theoretical stuff (which I don't think I could do). I know the GC is bringing in other people as well (he mentioned something about bringing in someone who know the ins and outs of lumber grading).
SteelPE....General Contractors are not licensed in your state, but there is a license called a Construction Supervisors License that requires 12 hours of continuing education for each renewal. You can probably become an authorized continuing education provider by registering with the state licensing agency (Board of Building Regulations and Standards). This will give your audience an additional benefit of satisfying continuing education requirements (for those who might hold that license) while actually learning something from you.
Good luck. It is a great marketing tool for engineers. Hit the architects next....might require surgical input, but could be worthwhile.
Good luck. It is a great marketing tool for engineers. Hit the architects next....might require surgical input, but could be worthwhile.
In the US, for steel, I would take them through the AISC Code of Standard Practice for Steel Buildings. That way, they can see where they fit in as part of the project team, how to work with drawings, RFIs,etc.. You're going to bore them to death and totally lose them if you talk stress & strain.
Since everybody seems to agree that technical subjects won't get far I think the goal should be to make them understand what you design for, your assumptions, and why it is important that the drawings are actually followed.
It seems to me the biggest argument with engineers vs. architects and engineers vs. contractors is their perception that we 'overdesign' everything. They install a beam incorrectly, and when you ask for it to be fixed the inevitable response is 'what do you mean it doesn't work, it looks fine to me'. If you could show them what you design for - code loads, factors of safety, serviceability etc. and make them understand that the goal isn't just for the structure to be standing after construction that would be a big step in my opinion.
It seems to me the biggest argument with engineers vs. architects and engineers vs. contractors is their perception that we 'overdesign' everything. They install a beam incorrectly, and when you ask for it to be fixed the inevitable response is 'what do you mean it doesn't work, it looks fine to me'. If you could show them what you design for - code loads, factors of safety, serviceability etc. and make them understand that the goal isn't just for the structure to be standing after construction that would be a big step in my opinion.
My 2 cents.
Most lay folks do not realize that all forces excreted on a structure are ultimately resisted by the earth. At one time, a plan checker from California required me to write down / describe the load path that wind load would take to get to the ground. So basically, wind was applied to cladding, cladding transferred the force to fasteners, fasteners to sheathing, sheathing to studs, etc.
Helping them understand the load path may make them realize that everything in a building transfers load.
Most lay folks do not realize that all forces excreted on a structure are ultimately resisted by the earth. At one time, a plan checker from California required me to write down / describe the load path that wind load would take to get to the ground. So basically, wind was applied to cladding, cladding transferred the force to fasteners, fasteners to sheathing, sheathing to studs, etc.
Helping them understand the load path may make them realize that everything in a building transfers load.
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