Complex House 2

[ztengguy]

I was approached to do engineering on easily a million dollar home by a guy acting as his own contractor. I saw the 'internet bought' plans and kindly told him to hire an architect and a builder. I also said that I was not interested in the project.

He replied back that I was highly recommended by a close friend (I have done business with the close friend) and that he wants me to reconsider, and that "I understand the risk you foresee, but I assure you our Christian upbringing and nature does not lend itself to a litigious society."

Would you reconsider, or run even faster away?

 

[jayrod12]

I'd be giving Usain Bolt a run for his money on this one (no pun intended)

 

[EngineeringEric]

Run faster! He cannot do wrong by his own eyes; you will be wrong when it comes time, i promise.

Now on a side note. if you sign/create a contract that states you will engineer per the provided plans and hold no liability for the project and offer CA services on a cost plus basis to be paid monthly.... then you should be safe. have a lawyer look at your contract if you don't have a similar contract on hand. Be careful and do it all in writing just in case his christian upbringing didn't have a focus on construction practices.

 

[bookowski]

I wouldn't necessarily run based on this alone. Talk to your common friend about his knowledge of the guy, meet with him and get a sense of his personality and ability to handle the project, and get a good contract in writing if it goes forward. Let him know what to expect and that you will not budge or cut corners. Litigation is making us all scared - he may be an honest guy and better than some of the contractors that you get stuck with anyway.

 

[ztengguy]

To be honest, what scared me off more was the internet plans. They are about useless for this type of house, the sections shown had a section for the porch support....showed 3 2x's stacked up flat on top of each other, (weak direction). I told him that there are many things missing, water sealing details, brick details, soffitt details, etc. He said this would be the flagship for his new development and home building/finance company.

He wanted to know if I could lay out the footings with him (he being manual labor) Hard to lay out the footings when there are no footing drawings.

I have told him no thanks again, I think its a train wreck in the works.

 

[rb1957]

if he's someone you know (and trust ?) then tell him why the plans are garbage. and that maybe you'd work with professionals (as you've suggested) as his "honest broker".

if he's someone you don't know, and don't care about, stop the conversation.

if he's someone you don't trust (and implying that your "upbringing and nature does not lend itself to a litigious society." sends alarm bells off), why ask the question ? run like heck ! if the project goes "pearshaped" and he's into it for $1m, i don't think he's going to put it down to experience and "should've listened"; i reckon (without knowing the guy) he'd say "someone else is to blame".


Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

 

[ztengguy]

I was just curious what others think. Thats the jist of the conversation.

 

[msquared48]

When anyone pulls out any religious card to try to suade you, I run. No exceptions.

I once heard from another structural engineer friend of mine who had done some work for a local pastor, who later refused to pay him, claiming his work was a "donation". No reason to doubt him. Nothing sort of larceny in my opinion.

Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)

 

[rb1957]

it is scarcely professional (to play on one's religion)

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

 

[paddingtongreen]

Who takes over if the man becomes unable to act for himself, executors, lawyers and CPAs are bound to act in the client's best (financial not religious) interest.

I think you cannot write a contract to protect you from accusations of failure to do due vigilance, or to only act in the client's interest.

Michael.
"Science adjusts its views based on what's observed. Faith is the denial of observation so that belief can be preserved." ~ Tim Minchin

 

[BUGGAR]

The only clients I had that never paid me were religious institutions.

 

[SteelPE]

I don't know how people can design wood structures on a day-day basis. I find that anyone who looses a job will go to the local home improvement box store, buy a hammer and skill saw and become a carpenter. I had a buddy who was a sculpture major in college, he is now a carpenter. I am grateful the we fell out of touch years ago before I received my license.

I also agree with others that my worst experience with not being paid on a project involved a religious institution.

 

[XR250]

Funny, I have church right now that owes me $410. I think I will take them to court just for giggles.

 

[TehMightyEngineer]

Maine EIT, Civil/Structural.

 

[jayrod12]

Teh,

That is my absolute, hands-down favourite movie of all time. I make references to the movie often but rarely do people pick up on them. I always giggle to myself ragardless.

 

[Ron]

Monty Python is never wrong! Run away.

 

[XR250]

If you need the work, get a retainer up front. If you do not need it, pass.
internet plans + homeowner contractor is a bad combination.
Try to idiot proof the design as much as possible.

 

[TehMightyEngineer]

Oh a serious note, if you had taken this project (and anyone else who comes across this topic in a future google search), make sure you get the clients' musts and wants spelled out in writing. Then establish that changing this list results in a change order that must be an additional fee. The company I work for has taken similar (but much less risky) projects that would have turned out very successful for all involved except the client kept making changes that would ripple through the whole project during or after the design.

We were stuck with the unfortunate situation of either walking from the project, hurting our image and the success of the project, or do the changes for no additional cost as we didn't get the client to commit to musts vs wants early on and the client couldn't afford the cost of a change order but "really, really needed to move that column over" or something similar.

Maine EIT, Civil/Structural.

 

[bridgebuster]

If you're not comfortable doing it, remember what Dirty Harry said: "A man has got to know his limitations", even if the potential client adheres to 1 Corinthians 6:6.

 

[steellion]

I would be more worried that he is going the cheap route on the architectural design than his religious comment. This would send red flags about him perhaps wanting to nickel-and-dime the design or have difficulty/unwillingness to pay you for your service.