Company codes of design 6

[rcooper]

I have just moved company from an engineering company which has been around for over a century to a company which has had an engineering department for a couple of years. During my time at the first company, I put together files of "Useful information" which included the company's codes of design which I referred to on a regular basis, as well as other stuff.

At my new company, an engineering manager has asked me what design codes from my previous employer I have. I won't hand them over to my new company, but how much of my previous infomration should I use? My policy up to now has to only use information which has been published and is in the public domain, but I know some useful stuff which came about due to the years of experience of my previous employer. Should I use this in my new job? If I do, I can't justify my designs without reference to my previous employer's codes, so I don't think I should use it, but then I was employed because of my previous experience.

 

[PSE]

If you brought with you copies/files of your previous employers codes/practices, in my opinion, I would not provide them. While I have never gone from one position into another position say with a direct competitor, I still would not divulge the specifics of what I would consider documented "trade secret" practices.

I would only use the "native" general knowledge from a previous employer for a current one. This is the "experience" that increases your value. If you have to go refer back to your previous employer's files, it is not "native" knowledge. You might be able to suggest improvements to methods of practice at your new employer but base them on the insights gained on your own experiences with both "systems" of design.

Regards,

 

[bridgebuster]

"manager has asked me what design codes from my previous employer I have"

Could you clarify "design codes"? To me, design codes mean AISC, ACI, AASHTO, various building codes, etc, if that's the case, there's no conflict. HOWEVER, if by design codes, you mean a set of office standards and procedures that describe how your previous employer set-up and ran projects, it becomes a gray area. You can't reveal proprietary information or trade secrets but if you're going to set up design codes for your new employer, you will be influenced by what you did in the past.

Most of my work deals with public works so I follow client standards. We don't have any need to develop in-house design guides. Several years ago, I wrote a design guide tha contained useful information that I learned over the years. It's not an official company document; just something I put together for the younger engineers. If I went somewhere else, I wouldn't hesitate to share it with others.

We have in-house manuals for things like QA, QC, project management, safety, proposal writing, and CADD standards. If I were to leave I wouldn't give these to a new employer. However, if I had to write one for a new employer, I would influenced by what I liked and disliked about my previous employer's practices.

 

[KENAT]

rcooper, I've been in the same situation although mainly on the drawing/CAD standards side.

I did similar to PSE. I happened to have an unformated copy from where I'd originally prepared it at the previous employer, I basically checked it for anything proprietry and then let my boss have it.

I don't think he ever looked at it as I ended up merging it with what little my place did have to create our new DRM.

The information used to prepare it at both employers was basically my own experience, I just didn't want to re-create it from scratch the second time.

However, when you talk about codes, if they are based on extensive work that was done to back them up, and if you're a direct competitor so it would give you a competative advantage, you need to be more careful.

I would definitely shy away from referencing previous employers Code, but if the information used to create that code is general/public knowledge why not create a new document based on it, making sure to reference original sources and/or re-prove any formulas, testing etc.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[Ashereng]

You took your previous employer's "codes of design".

Would this not be considered stealing in its own right?


You said you were hired for your previous experience. That is true.

You were not hired for your previous employer's property - including intellectual property. That is theft.

There have been many postings on issues such as this - taking things from a previous employer. You were employed by the company - it was not your company - you should not be taking anything at all.



"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
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[unclesyd]

Did you sign an anti-compete agreement? These things can tied one in knots if the originator of the agreement has the mind to.

I have a very good friend that has spent the last two years in court over such an agreement. He did not go to work for a competitor he started a new business. Though the new business dealt with fasteners, the same as his previous job, the target market and business concept were such that there would be no competition with his previous employer.
His previous employer has a ton of money and keeps amending his original suit after each section gets thrown out of court. The final hearing was supposed to be in October but the plaintiff has got the hearing pushed into next March.

My friend now has a legal bill of over $150,000 dollars.

 

[rcooper]

Ashereng,

Yes, I think it is stealing, but I collected lots of technical literature from the public domain and filed this with internal literature to create several large files. My previous employer would not purchase technical papers, so I have spent considerable sums collating these files, so have no problem with taking them with me.

I won't hand over any internal documents from my previous employer, and am in the process of destroying them, but I can't destroy them from my memory. Some of the information in my head includes ideal dimensions for process units, particular design parameters, most economical flow patterns etc. This information came from extensive and expensive pilot plant trials. So should I ignore what I know or should I contribute to my existing employer's standards?

 

[Ashereng]

Memory is yours. Company "code of desing" that you took, despite the fact that it took you a long time and good effort to compile, is still your employer's property.

You were employed by your employer. Anything you put together, under law, is still your employer's (related to your work that is).

You mentioned that you took your previous employer's "files". This I interpreted to mean a physical/electronic/etc file, not merely memory. In that case, I think most courts would view it as theft.

If you remember somthing, that is not proprietary or trade secret, you are free to use. This is the "experience" your new employer is pay you for.


"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[rcooper]

Thank you for the wise advice Ashereng.

The reason I had copies of company documents was I was expected to work remotely and autonomously, so I put together the information I needed. I will continue to get rid of anything which is proprietary information.

The files I referred to mainly contained technical papers (which I had paid for), vendor information, copies of sections of books (within the copyright limits) which allowed me to do my work. These were put together in my own time and without support from my employer, so I consider them mine to do with as I please, which is now to help my current employer.

 

[csd72]

If it is not the intellectual property of your previous employer then I cant see the problem.

csd

 

[SylvestreW]

Sorry but I'm (as well as others I think) are confusing Codes with SOPs. Codes/standards etc. that are publically available are free. SOPs, templates etc (that are on paper) are definitely not yours to use.

But your knowledge that's in your head of what works and what doesn't is definitely free (but again, as long as it's not a "secret" of your previous company's)

-
Aercoustics.com

 

[DarthSoilsGuy]

Keep destroying the files. that's what everybody does.
wink-wink, nudge-nudge, say no more.

oh, yeah and..
never um.. underestimate the power of the uh... dark side.
-dsg

 

[plasgears]

I took an interview in which I brought along some work instructions that I generated in another firm. These were strictly textbook information. I was trying to demonstrate tech competence.

The interviewer was sensitive about this issue, but I explained that it was text book info. Was he being a little narrow about this?

 

[Ashereng]

I don't think he was too sensitive. In fact, I would have responded similarly.

"Text book info". The information may be common knowledge. The particular "collections" and "packaging" of that book is proprietary.

Most "textbooks" are pretty much the same - all the info is known to the world. Yet, each book is copyrighted. See the difference?

If someone brought their "employer's" work instructions to me on an interview, I would most likely not view that favourably. I certainly would not want that to happen to me.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[MadMango]

As a part-time technical writer, how does one present good examples of work without bringing in prior work to an interview? Would it be safe if you used the Find & Replace options in Word and changed your company name to a more generic "XYZ Company"? Would you take a step further and change a mechanical interface design into a "goesinta, goesoutta"?

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."

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[kchayfie]

Bringing it to an interview as an example of work done is different to bringing it to the new job as something to be made use of again. In an interview, I would expect the interviewer to study the example for just long enough to decide I must know what I'm doing but not long enough to memorise what was in the example well enough to plagiarise it. To borrow the textbook analogy, its like you've shown him what a text book looks like and how it has these useful examples and so on and now if he wants his own text book he has to make the decision to go to the book store.

 

[DarthSoilsGuy]

ethical ... probably
dumb move .. probably

i told a guy at my 1st interview that they would absolutely have me for at least 6 years minimum - 4 for PE and 2 for Exp. i figured they would appreciate my grasp of reality and figure once i was settled in that they could get me for the long run.

what he saw -- this guy's just like the person i'm having to replace.

what your interviewer may be thinking -- i hope the guy who quit isn't parading around our work.

(my move was dumber so no offense, right)

 

[ewh]

Back before CAD, I used to bring samples of my work with previous employers to interviews. I did take the initiative to block out the title block on the drawings and anywhere else a company name or sensitive information was located. I never had a problem with this approach, and neither did anyone who interviewed me, as far as I know.

 

[Ashereng]

MadMango,

One possibility is to ask for permission.



"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[MadMango]

I am not a tech writer, I was just playing Devil's Advocate, building upon Plasgears' post on 4SEP07.

I think for interview purposes, bringing prior work could be almost mandatory. To use previously created documents verbatim at a new employer is wrong.

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."

Have you read faq731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?