calcium chloride vs rock salt on concrete driveway

[PSUengineer1]

Snow is finally here!!!!

What are other engineers using to "salt" their concrete driveways?

rock salt vs. calcium chloride.

where are you buying it? Big box stores (depot and lowes)?

Thank you.

 

[TehMightyEngineer]

Is this a trick question or something?

Maine EIT, Civil/Structural.

 

[Archie264]

I don't like putting salt on concrete in any form. I know it's a necessary evil in some circumstances but I'd be inclined to try just about anything else first.

 

[oldestguy]

Once you know you have the proper air entrainment in your concrete, don't worry about it. However, if the workers got on it too early and worked the surface so much that the air is lost, well that's tough.

 

[Signious]

A shovel

 

[cvg]

we never salted our driveway, but i know that occasionally you just have to. sidewalk and front steps though is absolutely necessary to prevent a lawsuit when the mailman lands on his head.

consumer reports is a good source

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2014/02/best-ice-melts/index.htm

 

[Brad805]

Potash works very well. You will need to go to an agricultural supplier to find it.

 

[OHIOMatt]

We use shovels / plows as a first option. If there is ice accumulation, we use cinders from the local coal fired power plant. They provide grip, in addition they are black and absorb the heat from the sun and melt the ice. I never put salt of any kind on my driveway.

 

[dhengr]

Actually, the conc. tastes better if it is lightly salted, but it’s still a little hard and crunchy for my taste. Oh...., never mind.

 

[dicksewerrat]

Mix dry sand 4:1 with what ever Ice Melt product available. However none of the "melting' substances work below about 10 degrees F. Keep your sand/ salt mix inside the house. when warm is sticks to the ice better.
Personally, I just retired from the cold climate and moved south. Only 1-2 days of snow ice and I just stay home.

Richard A. Cornelius, P.E.

http://WWW.amlinereast.com

 

[oldestguy]

I don't recommend any sand and salt mix. Reason is that sand will be tracked into your house. There is enough crap stuck to the underside of the car to bring more dirt onto the property. I stick with salt and of course shovel any snow. I am curious as to how the shoveler only guys can remove ice due to rain on below 32 degree slabs?

Question: How do we get local road maintenance guys to save their salt for where needed, vs spreading it on level streets that have low speed traffic away from stop signs? My dog is relegated to doing her walks away from all that salt that affects her paws. Besides my taxes pay for that waste. When I was a Kid (30's and 40's) there was no salt and we got along fine on packed snow. We had tire chains.

 

[IFRs]

Cheap wine works.
Salt water works.
Kitty litter works.

 

[Ron]

I live in Florida. Problem solved.

 

[ajk1]

1. Do not use salt or any other reactive ion, if there is any reinforcing bars, dowels or other metal embedded in the concrete. It will eventually cause corrosion of the metal and since the corrosion product is about 4 times the volume of the original steel (depending which of several oxides is formed), it splits apart and delaminates and spalls the concrete.

2. Do not use salt if there is any metal, like posts or rails attached to the concrete or to nearby locations where the salt will be tracked.

3. Do not use salt even on unreinforced concrete unless the concrete is properly air entrained with the proper air-void structure as specified in CSA A23.1.

4. Do not believe the labels on salt packages that say that they are non-corrosive. Read the label and you will see that the material is chloride. This is false advertising and should be prosecuted in my opinion.

5. I forget which is a little less corrosive - calcium chloride or sodium chloride, but both are quite corrosive.

6. Do not use salt if the concrete is relatively new, even on concrete with the proper air-void structure.

7. Do not use salt except in emergency conditions. Sweep off the salt when the emergency has passed.

8. In some cases, for public liability, salt may be necessary, or when infirm or the elderly have to walk there. Sweep it away when no longer required and wash the area thoroughly in early spring.

9. There are other deicing chemicals, some of which are less harmful, but which are less effective at colder temperatures. Some chemicals are deleterious to the concrete, even if properly air entrained. Some are environmentally unfriendly.

10. In short, for a home driveway, use a shovel, as others have noted, and get yourself a good robust long handled ice scraper.

Hope this helps a bit.

 

[CELinOttawa]

Ajk1: Tight, highly confined corrosion is AA low as 4 times the base material volume... Normally you are facing far, far more than this. Typical bars in reinforced concrete can have corrosion on the order of 9 to 12 times the base material the rust has replaced.

 

[ACtrafficengr]

How does cal/mag acetate affect steel? It's not as readily available, but it least it doesn't have chlorides.

From what I've seen, mixing salt and sand just wastes sand most of the time. Maine DOT found they need to spread 8-12 times as much when they use a 10% salt mixture. The grit may help on ice, but that's about it.

 

[jayrod12]

My experience with sand and salt at the same time found that the salt melted some of the ice/snow which caused the sand to sink to the bottom of the layer of water. Then the water refroze causing it to seem slipperier than pre-treatment. Manual labour is my go to. The problem is on the gravel walkway to my back door.

 

[oldestguy]

One reason for salt in a sand for deicing is to be able to handle it. Getting sand from a pit or a dredged sand pile means there will be moisture in it. Once frozen, it sure does not want to spread from the container (or truck body). The argument won't go far for highway snow crews.

As to me using an ice scraper on my sloping driveway once light rain has hit a cold slab, well that is about like trying to scrape paint off the slab. Out comes the salt bucket. The old bones can't take many falls these days.

Another question. Having had four houses with blacktop (asphaltic concrete) driveways, I have never had salt being a problem, nor on those highways either.

 

[PSUengineer1]

Thank you for the many responses and smart remarks

Sadly, I will not be moving to Florida any time soon.

Here is my solution:
1. shovel snow often with shovel. Use shop broom to keep concrete clean of any ponding water, eliminating opportunities for ice melt.
2. use calcium chloride sparingly (no sand/no sand chloride mix)and clean from concrete surface once ice is melted.