Bridges vs Buildings 3

[barnburner]

I am 1 year out of school working as a bridge engineer. I am fairly sure that bridges are not for me, however I still have an interest in structural engineering. I am wondering if I would enjoy working on buildings more than bridges. The main thing that I dislike about bridges is all of the standards/codes. I feel as though I'll never get a hang of using all the different references (AASHTO, NSBA, local DOT specs, etc.). Also, it seems as though about 5% of the work is actual design and the rest is just putting together the plans/specs. One project takes months/years to complete and I lose interest in it after working on it for so long.

My question is, are the building codes (IBC, ASCE7, others?) easier to work with? Can somebody explain to me what it's like to be a structural engineer that works on buildings? (Day to day tasks, how it differs from bridges)

If it is relevant, I live and work in the NYC area.

Thank You!

 

[msquared48]

"I'll never get a hang of using all the different references"

That is a problem you will have to deal with or you will never make it in engineering, especially buildings. We are constantly re-writing our spread sheets to keep up with the code changes in the IBC, ACI, AISC, NDS, etc., etc., etc.

It is also start and stop, dealing with changes, lack of communication, and incorrect or incomplete information. You have to have a minor in forensic research at times too.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

[Ingenuity]

I thought all buildings are designed to, and the whole world uses the International Building Code...Sarcasm

 

[oldestguy]

Barn burner:

The farther you go along in engineering,the less and less you will be designing and the more you will make. However,the challenges will be even greater. One of the major challenges is how to administer projects and the folks under you. They might have touched on that in college if you had a good education. You will look back on these days and wonder why you complained.

 

[JAE]

Buildings:
[red]
1. No standard building out there - ever. Even if you get a Phase II building it will always be: "this is just like Phase I....EXCEPT..."
2. The flow of information you need is random, varied, and sporadic. Sometimes you have a geotech report - sometimes not. What is the weight of that RTU?
3. Your fees will allow you to occasionally buy new erasers.
4. The schedules are always "can you have the design ready to go last week?" "can we get a footing package out - no, we don't know the actual shape of the building yet"
5. The architect designs and designs and designs up until the day the final drawings go out.
6. The architect will always change their mind.
7. The quality of the construction varies extremely. Totally dependent on the nature and disposition of the contractor.
8. You will typically have to figure out what to do when your column/brace baseplate has anchor bolts in the wrong place.
9. It is a wild, frenetic, chaotic, challenging mish-mash environment in which you, the analytical, focused, and OCD engineer must inhabit.
10. I love it.
[/red]
[blue]
Bridges:
1. The DOT you work for has standards for everything, including the way you should sign your name.
2. The profile grade line of the bridge, its cross slopes, skew, and horizontal layout is all figured out months before-hand.
3. Your fees are very comfortable.
4. There are no changed minds or changed plans.
5. There are no architects.
6. Most bridge structural systems are just beams running over columns resting on footings.
7. There is no need to worry about specifications - the DOT's have them all written for you.
8. Most of the work is putting together shop drawings (i.e. bridge plans)
9. The typical pattern for bridge engineers is: "give me my bridge layouts, my generous hours per sheet, a cup of coffee, my nice warm cubicle, and leave me the heck alone for two months and I'll have the plans ready to go."
10. I left that line of work years ago.
[/blue]
So I think it comes down to what turns your crank.

 

[hokie66]

JAE has given you a great explanation. There is a further option...industrial structures. More like buildings than bridges, but generally without those pesky architects.

 

[dhengr]

Barnburner:
If you are allergic to standards and codes, you may be in the wrong business as a Structural Engineer, whether it is designing bridges or buildings and managing their construction. And, the stds. and codes aren’t getting fewer, shorter in length or less complicated either. The one salvation is that with some experience you start to learn the codes and start to understand the intent of the various parts of the codes, and the minutia becomes a little less significant and overwhelming. Except, of course, you do still have to follow the applicable codes and stds. And, they are coming at us faster and faster with less coordination between them. JAE has pretty well summed up my recollections of the two areas of practice.

 

[Enhineyero]

If I could make an analogy: (NO offense intended to anyone)

Life in bridges is like how a guys do their shopping. He goes in. He takes the stuff he likes and pay. Then he goes out. Its simple, a bit straightforward, and relatively consumes less time.

Life in Buildings is like how the ladies shop. She goes in. Goes around, tries this and that, and after 4 hours, buys a stuff. Its challenging, tedious, and relatively consumes more time.

 

[XR250]

If you stick to residential and light commercial, 95% of your time will be spent on design and drafting - at least that has been my experience.

 

[bridgebuster]

I think we need to clear up some misconceptions:
NSBA isn't a code; it's an industry organization. Everyone uses AASHTO although many states have modifications to AASHTO -not unlike states and municipalities that have modifications to IBC.

With all due respect to JAE

1. The DOT you work for has standards for everything, including the way you should sign your name.[highlight #CC0000]yes, it is true you have to sign your name a certain way; there are standards for many things, however, if you've ever done a rehab/renovation project there are no cook-book solutions[/highlight]
2. The profile grade line of the bridge, its cross slopes, skew, and horizontal layout is all figured out months before-hand.[highlight #EF2929]only in a perfect world; usually the highway guys are working out the geometry while the bridge is being designed[/highlight]
3. Your fees are very comfortable.[highlight #EF2929]Please tell me which DOT I should work for[/highlight]
4. There are no changed minds or changed plans.[highlight #CC0000]try working on a project in an urban area[/highlight]
5. There are no architects.[highlight #EF2929]Unless you work on a signature bridge, or what I call "an aesthetically enhanced" bridge. Of course highway engineers, traffic engineers, and geotechs are akin to architects [/highlight]
6. Most bridge structural systems are just beams running over columns resting on footings.[highlight #CC0000]true[/highlight]
7. There is no need to worry about specifications - the DOT's have them all written for you.[highlight #CC0000]maybe 75% of the specs; then again in building work you guys use the Master Format software; just delete the sentences you don't need[/highlight]
8. Most of the work is putting together shop drawings (i.e. bridge plans)[highlight #EF2929]in the bridge world, shop drawings are submittals from the contractor[/highlight]
9. The typical pattern for bridge engineers is: "give me my bridge layouts, my generous hours per sheet, a cup of coffee, my nice warm cubicle, and leave me the heck alone for two months and I'll have the plans ready to go."
[highlight #CC0000]if only that were true[/highlight]

 

[JAE]

bridgebutster - no worrys! Appreciate your feedback on my somewhat tongue in cheek comparison. I've worked in both arenas (some at the same time for the same firm) and I was just trying to capture the relative flavors of each.

I would take a bit of exception to your response on 8. In the four states we did business in for bridges (midwest US) the engineer's bridge drawings were essentially shop drawings with every bar bend called out, and every steel plate size, weld, bolt, etc. with a bill of materials on every sheet and a take-off of exact quantities of materials too.

 

[steellion]

It may seem overwhelming now, but I promise it does get easier with experience. You'll be surprised how quickly you learn to navigate the codes with some experience, and how much you can retain without having to open your code book. You will get intimately familiar with the codes when it is time to go for the P.E. If bridges aren't striking your fancy, give building design a shot. But if you know that endless code references and equations aren't for you, I'm sorry, that's what structural engineering is. You could transition over to the construction side. They are always eager to hire employees with engineering degrees as project engineers.

 

[bridgebuster]

JAE - I figured you were being somewhat tongue in cheek. Thanks for clarifying No. 8, in some states we also prepare complete bar lists that end up coming back as a shop drawing.

One nice thing about building design, from my limited experience in the area - there's more freedom in terms of preparing details.

 

[JoshPlumSE]

Barnburner -

I would stick it out until you have enough experience that you feel you could comfortably answer Bridge questions on the PE exam. Then, if you still feel the same way, then switch over to commercial (or industrial) structures. You may find yourself loving those projects, or not.

If not, don't despair! My advice would be to figure out what you like best about these projects and eventually pursue that. I know structural PE's that have gone into project or construction management, structural software (like me!), connection design / detailing, equipment design, construction law.... Guys who have become engineering reps for companies that provide construction or solutions (Hilti, CoreBrace, Simpson, Sika, APA/WPC, et cetera). Then there are other more specialty structural fields (telecommunication towers, aerospace structures) you could get into.

The point is that when you build up your engineering knowledge you open many doors of opportunity. You're not necessarily staring down 30 years of doing the same kind of projects over and over again. Learn what you can on your current projects then move on to the next phase of your career with good, valuable knowledge to take with you!