Brick Veneer "Passing Through" Framing

[GaStruct]

Met with a mason on site today who will be installing the brick veneer on a house I designed.

There are multiple low roofs that frame into the walls with a ledger. He suggested omitting the lintels I had shown and instead cutting the sheathing to allow the bricks to "pass through" down to their support at the foundation.

Any thoughts on this approach? Cutting back the roof sheathing isn't ideal, but I don't think trimming it a few inches is particularly detrimental either. Thoughts?

 

[phamENG]

Sounds like a terrible idea. Water goes through brick veneer. That's why there's a vapor barrier on the face of the wall between the sheathing and the brick. Now you're going to have roof framing (probably untreated) in that moist space. And where does the water go at the bottom? Did the architect plan for those now thicker walls? What's it going to do to the doors and usable space?

Those roofs are diaphragms. What's the load on the diaphragm? Can you get the load out of the diaphragm and to the main wall with all your rafters now in bending over those last...what...9 inches?

 

[gte447f]

Well, I doubt these low roof diaphragms have been designed to transfer out any shear at the boundary, but if they had, that would be the end of that.

I guess these are porches and other such similar exterior areas? I've always wondered how these roofs typically get attached to brick veneer houses. Sounds like your original design was to have lintels spanning over the low roof? Are we talking about loose lintels? How long are the spans?

 

[XR250]

Sounds like a terrible idea. Water goes through brick veneer. That's why there's a vapor barrier on the face of the wall between the sheathing and the brick. Now you're going to have roof framing (probably untreated) in that moist space. And where does the water go at the bottom? Did the architect plan for those now thicker walls? What's it going to do to the doors and usable space?

Those roofs are diaphragms. What's the load on the diaphragm? Can you get the load out of the diaphragm and to the main wall with all your rafters now in bending over those last...what...9 inches?

You can have them install flashing and weeps above the roof line.

 

[GaStruct]

Water goes through brick veneer. That's why there's a vapor barrier on the face of the wall between the sheathing and the brick. Now you're going to have roof framing (probably untreated) in that moist space. And where does the water go at the bottom?

They would still flash above the roof to drain onto the shingles.

Did the architect plan for those now thicker walls?

What do you mean thicker walls?

What's it going to do to the doors and usable space?

All doors and windows will have a loose lintel per my plans. Just not low roofs where it can theoretically pass through.

Those roofs are diaphragms. What's the load on the diaphragm? Can you get the load out of the diaphragm and to the main wall with all your rafters now in bending over those last...what...9 inches?

This is my concern as the struct eng, however, it should be no more than 6" cut back and all of the locations are open covered porches or small awnings. I don't think these really need a proper cantilevered diagram.

 

[GaStruct]

I guess these are porches and other such similar exterior areas?

Yes

I've always wondered how these roofs typically get attached to brick veneer houses.

Honestly, I bet this how it's done a lot of the time. At least for tract houses and spec homes.

Sounds like your original design was to have lintels spanning over the low roof? Are we talking about loose lintels? How long are the spans?

For long spans I had them detailed to be bolted to the studs with blocking. Loose lintels over windows/doors are still planned to be installed.

 

[phamENG]

Oh, it's for a porch? Go nuts, then. But the shear transfer is still an issue you have to solve.

 

[gte447f]

Personally, I would prefer your original design to bolt a shelf angle to the wall framing, although I can see the mason's reluctance due to the specifics of getting the angle installed. What good does blocking between the studs do? I would want lags centered up on the studs, which might be a coordination nightmare, especially if the angle has to be pre-drilled in a fabrication shop.

 

[gte447f]

Oh, it's for a porch? Go nuts, then. But the shear transfer is still an issue you have to solve.

I agree in principal, but lets be honest, in reality there will be practically no shear in that diaphragm ever, and the rafters alone will probably be plenty adequate to transfer the shear.

 

[GaStruct]

Personally, I would prefer your original design to bolt a shelf angle to the wall framing, although I can see the mason's reluctance due to the specifics of getting the angle installed.

Me too on both. But, I really do try to save homeowner's money where advised. No reason to dig my heels in and add unnecessary cost when there is no safety issue.

What good does blocking between the studs do? I would want lags centered up on the studs, which might be a coordination nightmare, especially if the angle has to be pre-drilled in a fabrication shop.

I specify blocking similar to the below detail I saw in a JLC article. Much easier to install than lagging into studs.