Arched veneer

[WWTEng]

Please see the attached sketch. The architect is placing a door with an arched header in the veneer. The cmu wall behind the veneer does not have an arch and I have designed a WF+plate lintel for the cmu. Typically I would call out an angle to pick up the veneer but since this is arched, do I need to do anything? The way I think I should approach this is to let the architect make a note on his drawings that the mason has to design the arch to carry the load above it. I think calling out an arched angle would be inane. I have never run into an arched veneer situation so I need some guidance.

Thanks.

 

[MiketheEngineer]

That's a hard one...Seen it done both ways....with and without. Not much of an arch... no dimensions given.

How "tall" is the brick? What kind of loads here?? Can you tie it to the CMU??

 

[BAretired]

I don't think the architect has detailed his brick correctly and I don't think you should ask the mason to design the arch.

If there are several arched openings, it might be worthwhile looking into a brick arch more carefully. If there is only one or two, I would be inclined to use an angle suspended from your steel lintel.

BA

 

[Ron]

Agree with Mike...not much of an arch. The shallower the arch, the less likely the brick can actually achieve and arch effect....put the angle in this one.

 

[JAE]

I guess for a moderately wide opening like this I wouldn't use a wide flange in the CMU wall. I'd just use a grouted CMU lintel with a couple of bars in the bottom and then I would have a steel fabricator provide an arched angle lintel bolted to the CMU lintel. The fabricator could provide a smaller bent angle with a longer vertical plate welded to it to facilitate bolting to the CMU higher up.

A flat arch like this will have very large lateral thrust forces if there is significant masonry above it.

Conversely, the architect may not want to see a steel plate under his nice arch.

 

[shobroco]

Depending on the amount of wall beside the arch each way, there might not be an issue. However, I'd tell the architect if you want me to design properly, you have to do so as well. No brick arch has plumb joints, they are radial. Few brick arches have a level top. Ask for a real drawing of what he wants, & then you might be okay. I don't think there is an issue with the rise to width of the illustrated arch if it is done properly and there is some wall to each side, there are thousands of jack arches in brick walls with no rise, only properly angled bricks.

 

[WWTEng]

I agree that the brick is not drawn correctly, and I think its because the architect is still working thru his detail. I also agree that the arch is too shallow and would likely not support itself.

@JAE: You are right, a bond beam lintel would work better here, it would also avoid any interruption in the vertical rebar at jambs.

I think I'll call out an arched angle for the veneer but I don't want to connect it back to the masonry/steel lintel, I don't want to place an eccentric load on the main lintel.