Anyone bring a Labor Attorney to their own review? 7

[casseopeia]

I want to. I just don't know if I should do it as a surprise, or let them know ahead of time. I can't count on the boss. The bad manager is still sore about being proven wrong and the HR weenie just goes with the side with the power. I've got no allies on the inside and want to bring in my own team and I'm willing to spend some of my paycheck to do it.

"Gorgeous hair is the best revenge." Ivana Trump

 

[tygerdawg]

Wow. Don't know your situation, but you've got my sympathies. Unless you've created such a situation upon yourself. "proven wrong" ? Only a good thing if done delicately.

I've certainly been treated like cr@p before by companies, loser bosses, and HR Weasels, but I'm not much for THAT level of confrontation. I can't imagine that it would ever end well. Having said that, unless you really have some serious axes to grind with the company or people that borders on the criminal, I'd not. I'd certainly go prepared with evidence, proof, documents, and a list of witnesses for anything in particular you think may come up in such a discussion. Perhaps even wire yourself with a recorder...seen it done before to our Boss-Who-Was-Satan, and it was useful. Just the **rumor** that he might be recorded fixed his hateful unprofessional behavior. Some may argue the legality / ethics of going "wired", so another approach is to set the recorder right there on the desk and politely ask if He/She would mind you keeping the conversation documented. That'll squelch all bad behavior, and provide the proof for anything ugly that must be done later. Or it might also get you fired. In an "at-will" employment environment, you've got no rights or privedges whatsoever. None at all, unless you can document criminal intent (and probably be required to prove it in a court or accept a settlement to shut up about it).

Remember the Kryptonite Keywords & use them like a pocket nuke:
harassment
hostile workplace
discrimination (race, age, gender, education level, almost anything applies)

Rotsa Ruck, tread lightly.

TygerDawg
Blue Technik LLC
Virtuoso Robotics Engineering

http://www.bluetechnik.com

 

[beej67]

Don't do it unless you already have your next job lined up, or you've got enough put away to go get your masters degree.

Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -

http://www.campbellcivil.com

 

[TheTick]

If you're at that point, it's gone too far.

 

[cvg]

you might be better off bringing a tape recorder. don't bring an attorney

 

[msquared48]

Until I say your name Cass, I was goung to make a comment about the labor portion of the title. But I think not now...

I would agree with the aspect of having another job offer in the wings before you do this, and I would ask, would you really want to work for this boss after you do this?

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

[casseopeia]

There is no question that things have gone too far. I have already resigned myself that I will likely be terminated. My relationship with this company started downhill after a false accusation about not following company protocol and sending repair details and specifications to the contractor. In fact I had followed procedure, and produced the emails and correspondence with my senior project manager to back it up. But the Bad Manager kept fighting saying things like he never got the emails, I should have called him directly, I should have made sure he had completed his work sufficiently, etc. I countered with, you did get my emails, you responded to them, just not on topic. I didn't call you because I thought it was better to walk down 4 desks and talk face-to-face. You did review this, here are your markups.

I thought the episode was over, but this particular incident keeps coming back as if I had been found guilty of some gross misconduct. When all was said and done, after witnessing the Bad Manager review my work, he made a minor editorial change. I wouldn't even call it a correction. In the end, there was a lot of turmoil over no real harm. No mistake was found and there was no gross violation of company protocol. Done, right?

Yesterday during a discussion about what projects are ready to go out, I was asked yet again about the "Protocol" job and what was taking me so long to get the report finished. I said the report is done, it's BEEN done. It was put on hold pending a review of an alternate contract that the owner sent to the Bad Manager to sign. It is Bad Manager's responsibility as the PM, author, and negotiator of the contract to review the changes, not mine.

But I offered to review it for him and asked if I was to set aside my own projects and put the contract review at the head of the queue. I am fairly certain I asked without any kind of sarcastic tone. I didn't feel sarcastic at the time. I simply wanted to know what was most critical to them to complete first.

I got YELLED at for asking that question, "You should know this by now, you have enough experience, you cannot ask this question, we don't just fire people randomly for one mistake, etc". I waited for the head spinning to stop I'm sure looking like the OMG cat, then said, calmly, "I take it that you want my contract review before the end of the day, with enough time to look at it before signing it and sending it out. I will put Project Desperation aside for now and will review the contract and you will have it before noon.

The minute I got back to my desk and checked emails, the HR weenie who had been in the discussion had demanded that I make myself available for my 6 month review which is to include the boss, the Bad Manager and the HR Weenie. That's the same lineup that fired our accountant last week, the second accountant since I started working here 7 months ago and the 6th in less that 3 years. I liked the accountant and got along very well with her. She was a straight-shooter and very honest. She never sugar-coated the news and never lied about where the budget was headed. She was my strongest ally and now she is gone.

I asked my brother what he would do and he suggested hiring a videographer. He said something about another human set of ears, a witness around changing the dynamic of the meeting. He also had a list of buzz-words, including hostile work environment.

I can honestly say I have never seen a more dysfunctional organization. And for anyone not familiar with the OMG cat, see link.

"Gorgeous hair is the best revenge." Ivana Trump

 

[lacajun]

Love the OMG cat!

Check your state laws to determine whether you can carry an audio recorder in your pocket. My state allows it and no one has to know but the person with the recorder.

I wouldn't walk in with a labor attorney but I would talk with one before that day and have my thoughts lined up. As professionals, we do not have much recourse. I would take meticulous notes during the meeting, too. And ensure you email all relevant documentation to a personal account prior to that day.

It sounds like you are working in a hell hole and the company has more problems than you can correct. Furthermore, as an engineer not in management, it is not your job to correct their problems.

It also sounds like the HR weenie is overwhelmed with the office politics. In my past jobs, screaming was never acceptable especially over something so minor. Screaming is out of control and fear coming through loud and clear. At least, to me it is.

HR will never be on your side unless your side is the company side or what they perceive as the company side. When the HR weenie stops taking notes on a sensitive subject, note it.

Good luck!

 

[MikeHalloran]

First, get all your personal stuff off the office computer, and all potential evidence backed up, at home.

You may be escorted from the meeting directly to the door. It certainly smells that way.

Use a digital voice recorder with a fresh battery.
For this upcoming meeting especially, I'd put in on the table and turn it on without comment.




Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[flash3780]

Bring a tape recorder in your pocket (can't be used in court in some states, but you'll have the convo on record for your lawyer). You can always recount from memory and your memory will be much better if there's a recording. Keep your cool and try to get through the meeting.

If you're still working there after the meeting, I say that you hunker down, be a good little soldier in your current job, and get as many resumes out to as many recruiters as you possibly can as soon as possible. That sounds like the company from the south side of heck; get outta there.

As Mike mentioned, get all of your stuff on your computer backed up (including emails!) as soon as possible.

This might be helpful:

http://www.rcfp.org/taping/states.html

 

[Ron]

Cass...unless you intend for that to be your last day, don't bring the attorney. If you know it's headed for an HR claim, then having the attorney could be a plus, but the attorney can't be a witness....the tape recorder could be.

Insist that the review be videotaped and that you be given a copy of the videotape with all rights of reproduction and use.

 

[MiketheEngineer]

In some states it is illegal to tape ANYTHING without the consent of ALL parties. That can really get you in trouble.

Check it out.

 

[Ron]

Cass....one other option...bring a court reporter to the review. I did this once for a pre-roofing conference on a large school project. Had no claims thereafter for confusion with specs, instructions, etc.

If you really want to intimidate, have the court report swear each of them in before starting.

 

[KiwiMace]

Flash's link implies you can't tape in CA. I would still tape it with my phone though, just know you can't be caught doing it, or use it anywhere.

CA is a will to work state, they don't need a reason to let you go unless their own company policy requires it. Bringing an attorney unfortunately implies some form of guilt.

Good luck. There are so few managers in this world who understand that the pyramid is actually upside down and the manager is on the bottom.

 

[SLTA]

Hugs, Cass. I know it took a while to get this job but this too shall pass... get out, give yourself some recovery time, and find out which firm your friend the accountant went to!

You never know. Maybe the universe is yelling at you that there's a way better opportunity for you, but you can't find it while stuck there.

Good luck!

 

[CorBlimeyLimey]

Use two audio-video recorders. One for display on the table, the other secreted in a pocket ... to record the table one being thrown out the window.

Good luck.

 

[controlnovice]

Use this:

http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/security/c521/

______________________________________________________________________________
This is normally the space where people post something insightful.

 

[hawkaz]

Be very careful about all this. The engineering communities tend to be small- and people do talk. If a termination goes badly, it will be remembered and could make getting a new job more difficult- especially in today's market.

My advise is to be big about this. If you are terminated- don't argue (they won't change their mind, so no point), let them know that you wish it would have worked out differently and good luck to everyone in the future. Depending on how this is handled, they may become a reference for you in the future.

 

[KENAT]

If you're that concerned ask a Labor Attorney what to do.

However, if it's got that far it sounds like you're likely doomed, my condolences and good luck.

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[ImminentCollapse]

Casseopia,
I seem to recall you're west coast. Based on the time-date stamp of your posts, are you posting any this while on the office computer? Probably seal your fate, although it seems that fate is predetermined.

As bad as it is there, I go with the gerneral consensus and wouldn't bring a labor attorney. Good luck with the review, I feel for your situation.

IC