4 inch butterfly valve

[cdafd]

Looking for a model four inch buttefly valve

looking for use in normally closed postion

looking for tamper monitoring, in that if you close the valve a turn or two it will send a signal to the fire alarm panel.

any suggestions??

thanks

 

[LCREP]

CD,

Any UL/FM butterfly valve for fire protection should work, it will have to wired closed instead of open. Is this to a pump test header?

****************************************
Fire Sprinklers Save Firefighters’ Lives Too

Not ALL Sprinkler Systems Are Created Equal! An Inadequate Sprinkler Design Is JUST As Bad As A Nonsprinklered Building!! When Occupancies Change So Should The Sprinkler System. See NFPA 25, 2002, Edition, Section 4.1.5, 4.1.6 & 4.1.6.1.

 

[cdafd]

kind of like a test header.

a vicutalic was tried, but you have to open it almost all the way open to get a signal to the fire alarm panel, not like a normal valve where it is just a turn or two.

Lit says "switches valve inopen postion"

http://www.victaulic.com/docs/lit/10.18.PDF

 

[Cidona]

Just to throw it out there. If the valve is in a normally closed it would seem when this valve is opened there will be flow. Could you use a flow switch to get the signal you want?

 

[LCREP]

How about a big chain and lock on the valve, that would meet the requirement NFPA 13 of supervised.

****************************************
Fire Sprinklers Save Firefighters’ Lives Too

Not ALL Sprinkler Systems Are Created Equal! An Inadequate Sprinkler Design Is JUST As Bad As A Nonsprinklered Building!! When Occupancies Change So Should The Sprinkler System. See NFPA 25, 2002, Edition, Section 4.1.5, 4.1.6 & 4.1.6.1.

 

[cdafd]

LCREP

I like old school solutions.


we talked about it, but for various reasons did not go with it.

 

[simply4you]

I tried hard few years back to find a "listed" normally closed butterfly valve. Some tests were done on Nibco valves just to wire it the other way. They were not successful. I end up by choosing a Potter supervisory switch (

http://www.pottersignal.com/Sprinkler/pdf/8820001-U_PCVS.pdf)

installed on the valve with a special kit. And this will be a "listed" solution.

 

[cdafd]

ok so all the normally closed valves in a fire pump room will not send a signal till almost all the way open??

we plan to require the plug type tamper.the valve has the spoke wheel.

http://www.pottersignal.com/Sprinkler/pdf/5401078-H_PTSC.pdf

you learn something every day and learn not to take things for granted.

 

[LCREP]

From the Potter Cut Sheet see below warning. I see these sometimes and most times the wire is not looped through the valve BUT connected back into the switch so the panel thinks everything is OK. I have a few pictures of this if u want.

Why all this fuss over a valve to a fire pump test header?? It is opened 1 day a year and is closed 364 days a year. What can happen if it open??? OK maybe it is open and the test header valves freeze and break, not the 1st time this has happen or last. Seems like an extra expense with little return in added safety. As I said lock and chain and forget about it.


WARNING Will Roberson WARNING Will Roberson WARNING Will Roberson WARNING Will Roberson

As Stipulated By Factory Mutual And Underwriters Laboratories

This unit is not intended or designed for ordinary use. It is a special application device to be used for unusual conditions such as non-rising stem gate valves where no other approved or listed method of protection is available or practical. As this unit does not meet NFPA codes and standards,requiring restoration signal when the valve is positioned to normal, special attention should be given by the responsible parties to assure that the proper operation of this device is maintained. This device should only be restored to normal when the valve is in the normal condition.




****************************************
Fire Sprinklers Save Firefighters’ Lives Too

Not ALL Sprinkler Systems Are Created Equal! An Inadequate Sprinkler Design Is JUST As Bad As A Nonsprinklered Building!! When Occupancies Change So Should The Sprinkler System. See NFPA 25, 2002, Edition, Section 4.1.5, 4.1.6 & 4.1.6.1.

 

[cdafd]

this is an open butt pipe being used for the flow requirement test for the backflow.

it is piped prior to the flow switch, so someone could open it partialy to almost all the way open and till some one sees the water flowing outside no one would know about it.

Just one of those learning curves, after ,..... years in the fire protection business did not know that the valve in closed position did not act like a valve in open position as far as monitoring it.

I guess I can reture now. I have learned everything

 

[FFP1]

What is the difference in an open butt (upstream of the system flow switches) and a fire hydrant or wall hydrant? If open or partially open, these components could also flow until someone sees the flow.

I suggest a threaded or grooved cap on the end of the "open butt" or maybe provide a water flow test header outside (downstream of the shut off valve). This provides an extra level of protection against accidental or inadvertent water discharge.

I hope this helps!

 

[LCREP]

Is the riser in a closet or secured area? If so, a chain and lock should be fine. We have many existing fire protection valves to sprinkler, fire pumps, standpipe systems that only have a lock and chain, and sometimes nothing. A pipe to the outside of the building with a normally closed valve would be low on my priority list.

As FFP1 said someone will see the water and report it.

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