3Dconnexion SpaceNavigator ?

[pkelecy]

I saw that Buy.com has the 3Dconnexion SpaceNavigator for only $37 (with free shipping):

http://www.buy.com/prod/3dconnexion...enavigator-pe-l09397/q/loc/101/203524885.html

I'm considering buying one but was wondering how well it works with SE. Has anyone used this model and care to share their thoughts on it?

This may resolve one complaint I have with SE. I've found that when in sketch mode and a tool is selected, the scroll wheel on my mouse does not zoom! It only zooms when the Select tool is active. As a result, I find myself constantly switching between the Select tool and the drawing tools (in order to zoom in on features I want to draw on), which is not very efficient (and rather frustrating, to be honest). Perhaps I'm missing the proper work flow for this though (or maybe some configuration setting that enables this?). (SW does not have this problem, BTW)

Thanks for any feedback.

Pat

 

[beachcomber]

Works fine with SE.
I've tried one but found it's a bit too light - tends to move around on desk.
Go for the Space Explorer if you can.
You could try getting a USB SpaceBall 5000 off ebay.
Don't get a serial version of a SpaceBall as they don't always work on new computers.

bc.
2.4GHz Core2 Quad, 4GB RAM,
Quadro FX4600.

 

[Gemnoc]

FYI, PE stands for Personal Edition. The reason for its low price (usually half of the Standard Edition) is the level of support. The PE device is for non-commercial use and you get email-support only. The SE gives you full support. Other than that, it's the same device. (and between you and me, who'll know wether it's used for commercial or non-commercial work!)

At this price, you should jump on this!

When I tried out a demo of SE provided by our local VAR, I had the same frustration with the way the mouse wheel zoom works or not. I also found less than ideal the need to use the CTRL key with middle mouse button to zoom, or Shift+CTRL+MMB to pan. In my opinion this is a considerable shortcoming in the software's interface design. When I told the reseller about it, he suggested the use of a 3D controler device. This VAR actually resells the 3Dconnexion devices, my guess is they're pretty aware of the interface's shortcomings.

Any 3D controler is a must with SE. The interface problem is no longer an issue. I can't imagine working without one. After getting used to it, you'll notice that you can manipulate the 3d model's point of view while selecting your tool with the mouse, your model already in the right position when the tool is activated. I love it.

But the SpaceNavigator is not without its quirks. BC has mentioned it's light, so it tends to move and also rotate. The fact it's round makes it somewhat difficult to make sure it's oriented correctly.

Button mapping is cumbersome (the SpaceNavigator has 2 buttons). You have to map the buttons in EACH environment, that is: in part, then in sketch mode within part, in sheetmetal, in sketch mode within sheetmetal, and so on. And the mapping doesn't stick. I've mapped the Zoom Fit command to the right button, and it's always broken in any of the environments. I've remapped the damn thing so many times that I've given up remapping it. I've tried many driver revisions over a year, It still shows this bug after a year's use.

Now there's another problem that came out after a year's use, although a cosmetic one: there seems to be a thin film covering the device's cap. I don't know if I have acidic hands (I don't kill my guitar's strings that fast!), but the film is starting to peel where my middle finger and thumb rest.

But those problems are not enough for me to stop using the device.

 

[Gemnoc]

Just more info on Personal Edition and Standard Edition. At work we got SE SpaceNavigators from our VAR. I bought a PE myself on 3Dconnexion's website for home use. Although there are specific drivers for PE and SE devices, they seem identical. The PE driver includes support for most CAD programs (SW, SE, Inventor, Autocad, Catia, Pro/e, etc.) and also 3DS Max and... Photoshop. And of course, Google Earth, but I've never tried it.

 

[pkelecy]

bc & Gemnoc, -thanks for the feedback. Definitely sounds like this will resolve my navigation issues (and then some), so I'm going to go for it.

Also, thanks for the clarification on the PE vs SE. I guess the PE is meant for the gamers and such ($37 is pretty cheap for something like this, considering a decent mouse is easily twice that). Regardless, I'm sort of leaning towards the SpaceExplorer. It looks like it should be more comfortable to use and should stay in place better. I also think the extra buttons could be useful. And compared to the cost of the CAD software, all of these devices are fairly cheap. If it works well, it should easily pay for itself. Do you know if SpaceExplorer has the same button mapping issue (with mappings not sticking, etc.) that the SpaceNavigator has? Seems like a major flaw for device like this.

I did notice some Spaceball 5000's on eBay for $52 ($10 shipping). That seems like a good price also, but being used could be problematic (so I'll probably pass).

Thanks again for the feedback. I appreciate it.

Pat

 

[Gemnoc]

I don't know anyone with the SpaceExplorer, so I can't tell. But I've read on forums that I'm not alone in having button mapping issues with the SpaceNavigator.

 

[xedu]

Pkelecy,

Look also at this site

http://www.spatialfreedom.com/pages/default.asp

They seem to have a better integration in SE than 3D connexion.
And the firm that is selling it is also a SE client
I know someone who is working with it and he just love's it !
I have a spacepilot from 3D connexion. And I must admit i don't use it a lot. Probably because I still can not work with it. Besides not everyone is so happy with a 3D controller.
HINT !
Try to use it before you buy it !
Or just sign in at

http://www.jasonnewell.net

and maybe you can win one ?

 

[pkelecy]

xedu, - Thanks for the suggestions. I've never heard of Spatial Freedom or their Asteroid 3D controller, but it does look like a good product (reminds me of the Spaceball 5000). Seems very reasonably priced as well. So I'll definitely check it out. If they have a reasonable return policy, I'll probably just buy and try it for a while. If I don't like, then return it and try the SpaceExplorer.

Thanks again. I'm glad I waited for before doing anything.

Pat

 

[beachcomber]

Gemnoc,
Shift + RMB for Rotate or hold middle button/scroll wheel.
Ctrl + RMB for Zoom or use the scroll wheel
Ctrl + Shift + RMB for Pan.
What do other systems use that could be simpler?
Catia V5 uses middle mouse button with combinations of LMB & RMB. It's OK with a 3-button mouse but hard work with a scroll wheel.
Any 3d system is far better with a 3d controller.

bc.
2.4GHz Core2 Quad, 4GB RAM,
Quadro FX4600.

 

[Gemnoc]

BC,

Please understand that I love working with SE. At work we worked with Autocad (and still do) for years before considering purchasing a parametric modeler. But I've always been interested in those, and was a fan of SW since early 2000 when I d/led it from somewhere (my bad). When I received the green light to look for a package, I mostly compared SW and SE, and had a quick (very quick) look at Inventor. Even though SW was starting ahead in my mind, in the end I recommended SE to my boss.

I no longer have the SW demo I tried on my computer. (actually it was an educational licence, I took a 40-hour course on SW at the time). I don't remember the key combinations for pan/rotate/etc. It's been almost 2 years now. What I remember is that it was slightly easier/more intuitive than in SE.

what pklecy said,
"I've found that when in sketch mode and a tool is selected, the scroll wheel on my mouse does not zoom! It only zooms when the Select tool is active."

I find this is an interface defect. Sure you can use Ctrl+RMB instead, but it's more of a hassle. I can't understand why users still have to suffer this after 10 years of software development...

(and come on, even Autocad has no problem with the scroll wheel zoom!)

But, even though it is a major gripe for me, it is not a deal breaker, and one that disappears with the use of a 3D controler.

P.S. Inventor is even worse, you actually have to activate the 3D rotate tool, never found a way to do without.

 

[beachcomber]

Hi Gemnoc,
I'd never noticed that the scroll wheel doesn't zoom when in sketch mode except when in select mode.
I think there is good reason though.
In some commands the scroll wheel will scroll the values in the input boxes eg. dimensions.


bc.
2.4GHz Core2 Quad, 4GB RAM,
Quadro FX4600.

 

[pkelecy]

Siemens should really consider changing this. Using the scroll wheel to zoom while drawing is pretty much a standard among CAD programs (at least the ones I've used). Someone seeing this in SE and not knowing the work arounds (like a prospective customer trying the program for the first time) is going to find it frustrating and get a negative impression.


Pat

 

[Gemnoc]

Yeah BC, but I figure the scroll wheel shouldn't change the values in the output box. Or at least, it should be unselected if you press the Escape key. It doesn't, as pklecy says, you have to select another tool, then hit Escape, and only then the scroll wheel zoom works again.

It is not something I've ever seen complaints about here or on the UGS forums in the past 2 years. Either long-time users have stopped complaining long ago, or it is a non-issue for most of them...

As I said, it annoys the hell out of me, but I don't use it anymore with my SpaceNavigator.

 

[Gemnoc]

Oops, not clear in my last post.

I typed "you have to select another tool", actually you have to return to select mode.

But there's another situation in sketch mode that disables the scroll wheel zoom, within the select mode. If you change the select mode in the input box (interior/exterior/crossing/...), the scroll wheel is locked to the input box, and the TAB key won't deselect the input box. You have to hit Escape or click on the Select icon to get the zoom back.

 

[beachcomber]

I agree, if you move the focus off the input box it should not scroll the values, and should let you zoom.

bc.
2.4GHz Core2 Quad, 4GB RAM,
Quadro FX4600.

 

[Gemnoc]

I was browsing through the SW group (gasp! ;-) ) and found this comment about the SpaceNavigator.

I think it sums it up nicely:

---
I use the Navigator with 2009. I also have extensive hot keys. Depending on what my task is (ie. sketching & detailing) I may not touch the Navigator at all. If I'm mating or tweaking models in an assembly, I may never take my hand off the Navigator. My point is, these devices simply give you an alternative. And for certain tasks, it's an alternative I find difficult to live without. You don't have to keep your hand on it. It doesn't complain if you don't touch it during a day of detailing. For $37, it's worth having it on the desk just to speed up assembly mating and model edits.