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  1. Kiljoy

    UL508a Enclosure type 12 derated to type 4??

    That makes quite a bit of sense. Thanks! It turns out our pushbuttons are type 12,13,and 4 but the vendor was kitting them for us which had the original packaging (with type rating on it) MIA. The HMI does say 4x only. Since these things are resistant to many solvents, I suspect it was an...
  2. Kiljoy

    UL508a Enclosure type 12 derated to type 4??

    Bugger! That's what I was afraid of. I'm not sure why manufacturers stopped putting all of the type ratings on, but it's probably that they don't want to pay for type 12 testing when they already are paying for type 4/4x. Thanks for the help!
  3. Kiljoy

    UL508a Enclosure type 12 derated to type 4??

    OK guys. Need some help here as this has been a thorn in my side for quite a while. We are an industrial machinery builder that is UL508A certified for building our electrical control panels. Our UL inspector has come in and flagged our Type 12 enclosures and said we need to "de-rate them"...
  4. Kiljoy

    670.3 Machine Nameplate Data

    That's what I've typically done in the past. But the then FLA would change if someone replaced a motor with a higher FLA one. That's why I was confused. The end user obviously uses our nameplate to size their feeder and breaker/disconnect. To add a bit into to the mix, we sometimes use...
  5. Kiljoy

    670.3 Machine Nameplate Data

    This section of the NEC tells how to calculate full load amps of multi-motor equipment. I understand how this works, I know when to use the FLA tables for wire sizing etc. My question: When listing the FLA on a piece of equipment and/or wiring diagram, do you use the actual motor nameplate or...
  6. Kiljoy

    Unusual type loads, duty cycles, and so forth ???

    NEC code section 670.3(A) states the following: “The full-load current shown on the nameplate shall not be less than the sum of the full-load currents required for all motors and other equipment that may be in operation at the same time under normal conditions of use. Where unusual type loads...
  7. Kiljoy

    Generator End Mfg. in Mexico

    I hear Juarez has cheap realestate :)
  8. Kiljoy

    125% of largest motor load

    It gets better. In the UL508a section on indistrial machinery, it states: 66.4.1 Field wiring terminals for supply connections shall be sized based upon the sum of: a) 125 percent of all heater loads; b) 125 percent of the largest motor load; and c) The full-load current ratings of all other...
  9. Kiljoy

    125% of largest motor load

    Great. Thanks! I've always used 125% of both motors just to be on the safe side because our hydraulic guys tend to design around the service factor instead of the full load. I figured that I would err on the side of caution.
  10. Kiljoy

    125% of largest motor load

    I’ve always been confused on this. When calculating the FLA of a piece of equipment or panel for purposes of feeder wire and disconnect sizing etc., the code states to add in 125% of the largest motor FLA. My question is: what if two or more of largest motors are the same size? Our pump...
  11. Kiljoy

    Arc Flash Mystery

    Ah, yes. I had a bit of a typing problem there. Must have been the Gin and Tonics. WTF?? I've tried to get these machines to use IEC equipment, but the "higher ups" say that it's a Cadillac machine and he customers want NEMA components. Until then, it is what it is. Note: There was a...
  12. Kiljoy

    Arc Flash Mystery

    Yes, when I saw that the voltage side was fused, but the Amperage side is unfused, I had a WFT moment. I was told the meter was from the 90's. It's an AmpProbe. Long story short, I concur with you and we are ordering him a new meter.
  13. Kiljoy

    Arc Flash Mystery

    There were no exposed screws. The meter was in a protective rubber boot. I just talked to the guy. He thinks the probes may have touched the block as he was holding them in his left hand. He still swears the leads were in the Voltage position. After the incident, the meter still worked...
  14. Kiljoy

    Arc Flash Mystery

    That I'm not sure we will ever know for sure. I know that people's memories tend to get foggy in situations like this. Where he was and where he thought he was may be two different things.
  15. Kiljoy

    Arc Flash Mystery

    Took a closer look at the meter. My suspicion is that he tried to read voltage when the probes were plugged in for amperage. Being a non-fused meter exacerbated the problem.
  16. Kiljoy

    Arc Flash Mystery

    That's why we are so confused. The meter was an old junker. I suspected the leads were in the amperage terminals, but he swears not. The amp side is unfused. I just can't see 480V jumping thorugh free air like that. We even called in an outside electrician and he was stumped. Said it...
  17. Kiljoy

    Arc Flash Mystery

    The fuses...http://files.engineering.com/getfile.aspx?folder=dc76091a-6bd5-4ccc-bbbe-6171581e7177&file=IMG_0282.JPG
  18. Kiljoy

    Arc Flash Mystery

    That was the meter. Here is the panel.http://files.engineering.com/getfile.aspx?folder=65868125-76b1-4019-b550-73715fc06e90&file=Copy_of_IMG_0283.JPG
  19. Kiljoy

    Arc Flash Mystery

    Here are the pics. There are temporary wires between the two distribution blocks that will be removed. http://files.engineering.com/getfile.aspx?folder=f1d1a20e-f6e2-4842-aff8-b18c19f38628&file=IMG_0285.JPG
  20. Kiljoy

    Arc Flash Mystery

    I was trying to figure that out and I'm not sure. Negetive terminal trace is fried, but the A and V terminals don't looked damaged. It looks like it arced to the back of the case where the little foil beeper is. The meter was given to him by our maintenance man. It was an old one he had...

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