i feel the need the need for speeds and feeds !!
i feel the need the need for speeds and feeds !!
(OP)
hi just wanted to know if there is a web site that has useful speeds and feeds tables for machining stainless steel , steel , aluminium and brass these are for use with both a vertical cnc mill and a cnc lathe max rpm 3000 on both . Bascially are machining department is going through alot of tooling and i think a few laminated charts reminding them of the speeds and feeds and if possible how deep a cut to take wouldn't go a miss . Both machines work in mm/ minute and rpm to it would be helpful if the charts were in this
thanks in advance for any response
cheers chris
thanks in advance for any response
cheers chris





RE: i feel the need the need for speeds and feeds !!
http://dl.winsite.com/bin/downl?14500000037133
Manufacturing Freeware and Shareware
http://mrainey.freeservers.com
RE: i feel the need the need for speeds and feeds !!
http://www.winsite.com/bin/Info?14500000037133
Manufacturing Freeware and Shareware
http://mrainey.freeservers.com
RE: i feel the need the need for speeds and feeds !!
Bob
RE: i feel the need the need for speeds and feeds !!
cheers
RE: i feel the need the need for speeds and feeds !!
Values are given for Surface Feet Per Minute and Feed Per Tooth, so your guys would still have to do a little work with a calculator.
Manufacturing Freeware and Shareware
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RE: i feel the need the need for speeds and feeds !!
Not to go a little off topic but this is something I have never understood. I see the OSG guy maybe once a month or even less and he is extremely helpful and gives me everything I need and ask for. I surf over to their website looking for simple speed and feed info or other basic info and I run headlong into a mountain of complex mumbo jumbo and double talk that only prevents me from finding what I am looking for!!!!!!
I just needed this time to rant a little. Thank you.
RE: i feel the need the need for speeds and feeds !!
Anyway, I'm the in-shop CNC Programmer/Operator trying to figure out how to use an ancient Thermwood CNC Router--No graphing functions, no direct loading of programs from the control software (all transfers have to be done in DOS Mode and then rebooting of the control software), and some rather unusual G-code settings (G53.x is the tool/part offset code?! There is no subroutine coding?!)to machine an unusual plastic material for the parts on this page:
http://www.coldwaterseals.com/drainage/fsuhmw.html
A picture which will give you a general idea of what I'm making is in the top right corner of the page, and there is some technical data on the plastic material itself if you scroll down.
Anyway, the only discernible limitation I've run into is that the RPM speed must be a minimum of 1,800 RPM but no more than 20,000 RPM--Table feed rates can range from 1-1,000 inches per minute, though I've never taken it above 300 because of the resulting vibration from the motors making me quite nervous about it maintaining any degree of precision in it's movements.
My current dilemma: I'm having to cut about 156 "herringbone" pattern slots in a single part with a 1/2" diameter carbide end mill (30 degree helix, 2" length of cut and 4" overall length of the tool, with about 3" of it hanging out of the spindle in order to avoid crashing into the monstrous clamping system I'm forced to use) at about 1.250" depth per slot, those of you reading this who work with similar machines can probably guess at what kind of problems I'm running into in terms of tool vibration at higher speeds... but the best I can come up with is about 3,000 RPM/36 Inches per minute.
Which is, of course, unacceptable in terms of production time as the order calls for 7 of these parts, and our ever-zealous sales staff agreed to a deadline of October 6 for the shipment.
So... can anyone here offer any suggestions in terms of alternative tooling for this problem?
Also, are there any freeware programs out there that can convert an AutoCAD drawing to NC Code automatically?
I'm wasting inordinate amounts of time programming these things in notepad and copying them directly into the hard-drive of this CNC machine, testing the program without tooling or on scrap material to make sure I haven't made any errors in these several hundred line programs.
RE: i feel the need the need for speeds and feeds !!
RE: i feel the need the need for speeds and feeds !!
I am assuming the 156 slots will be identical and the moves will just be indexed by some amount for the length of the part. Program the first slot and create a spreadsheet using columns for the various codes areas N,G,X,Y,Z,I,J,K,F,S,T. Do not enter the values that are indexing with the code letter enter the NUMBER only. Create your second slot but instead of copying and pasting the indexed values add the indexing value to the previous locations. Then cut and paste the second slot 154 times. Insert a column next to the number column. Create a formula with the proper prefix and the number value; example =if(B23="","","X"&B23). Copy the formula down the column. Cut and special paste values to get rid of the formulas. Delete the orginal number column and save the program as a .txt flie. Use notepad to take care of any other editing.
Reduce the tool overhang by changing the clamping if possible. Use serrated edge clamps to remove anything above the part. Carrlane is one manufacturer of this type of clamp.
I once saw a manually written program for milling kidney slots (1/2" wide slots on an arc) in a hydraulic pump body. The machine was a point to point vertical machine which did not have linear or circlular interpolation. They used short point to point chatter routine to mill the slots. There was about 400 points in each slots and to top it all. The coordinates were calculated using a trig table. This was preceded scientific calculators. The tape was punched by hand and verified by hand.
You do what you have to do to get the job done.
RE: i feel the need the need for speeds and feeds !!
It's a trial version, but doesn't time out and is only disabled in unimportant ways. It's also a CNC editor, so you can program interactively.
To convert DXF to G-Code, look at Ace Converter. It's free. I haven't used it, but have read good things about it.
http://www.dakeng.com/ace.html
Manufacturing Freeware and Shareware
http://mrainey.freeservers.com
RE: i feel the need the need for speeds and feeds !!
And thanks for the links to the programming tools, I'll definitely be giving them a look-over when I get to work in the morning (I sent a link to this page to my workstation at work).
My current project now involves a similar part, except that it is one continuous slot that is a series of linear/circular interpolation moves--with sloped "landings" at specific locations throughout the slot in order to provide support for the part so I'm not just cutting the thing in half.
...these 800+ long lines in manual coding are giving me headaches. :D
The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. -- H.L. Mencken
RE: i feel the need the need for speeds and feeds !!
You might evaluate the use of incremental subroutines to cut your coding down. Easy to lose track of where you are, but very nice once you get them worked out.
Manufacturing Freeware and Shareware
http://mrainey.freeservers.com
RE: i feel the need the need for speeds and feeds !!
G90G1Z.6
or
G90G1Z-.6
On the end of a line like:
G91G17G75G2X-2.75Y-3.5R1.0
NOTE: The coordinates were just an example, I have not made sure they'd actually work in terms of the radius passing through the two given points in the X or Y values.
?
The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. -- H.L. Mencken
RE: i feel the need the need for speeds and feeds !!
I use "subroutines" of sorts, except this machine forces you to write a seperate program and reference it in your main program with the M98 word and the L variable to tell it how many times to repeat it.
Also, new problem. My machine has ceased to recognize the R variable when I'm attempting to do circular interpolation, and I'm writing a subroutine so I can repeat a series of irregular arcs. It isn't because the radius is in multiple quadrants, I've already specified the G75 code earlier in the program...
I believe that the ancient hardware driving my machine is getting ready to go.. :D
I'll try obtaining the I and J variables and changing my program again, but it kills me to think I'll have to go through all the old programs I've got and do the same thing...
The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. -- H.L. Mencken
RE: i feel the need the need for speeds and feeds !!
RE: i feel the need the need for speeds and feeds !!
Thing is, I'm still running into the problem of my machine ignoring the R-variable in the program.
This program is actually pretty short, so I'm going to copy/paste the program and subroutine in below:
Main program first:
(C7015-1P.TXT)
(FOR GEORGIA PACIFIC - HALSEY)
(USE 1" COBALT END MILL @12,500RPM/150IPM)
G90 G80 G40 G10
G90 G1 X240.525 F300
G90 G1 Y63.63
G53.1
M1
G90 G1 Z.25 F21
G90 G1 X1 Y-2.841
G90 G1 Z-.375 F150
G90 G1 X-1.105 Y-2.470
G90 G1 Z-.6
G90 G1 X-4.588 Y-1.855
G90 G1 Z-.375
G90 G1 X-4.739 Y-1.829
G90 G1 Y-2.398
G90 G1 X1 Y-3.4
G90 G1 Z.125
G90 G1 X-5.326 Y-1.725
G90 G1 Z-.125
G90 G17 G75 G3 X-6.273 Y-2.075 R1.0 G1 Z-.6
G90 G1 Z.125
G90 G1 X-5.153 Y-2.315
G90 G1 Z-.125
G90 G17 G75 G3 X-7 Y-2.909 R2.0 G1 Z-.6
G90 G1 Z.125
G90 G1 X-6.273 Y-2.075
M98P013L1 <--I'm only looping once, sample program cutout.
G90 G1 Z-.6 <--all that follows is based on the loop.
G91 G1 X-1.455 Y-1.770
G91 G17 G75 G2 X-1.545 Y0 R1.0 G1 Z.85
G91 G1 X2.273 Y.885
G90 G1 Z-.6
G91 G17 G75 G2 X-3 Y0 R2.0 G1 Z.85
G91 G1 X3
G91 G17 G75 G2 X-3 Y0 R2.0 G90 G1 Z-.85
G90 G1 Z.25
G91 G1 X2.273 Y-.885
G91 G17 G75 G3 X-1.545 Y0 R1.0 G1 Z-.85
G91 G1 X-1.455 Y1.770
G90 G17 G75 G3 X-17.674 Y-1.725 R1.0 G1 Z-.125
G90 G1 Z.125 <--I'll have to change X from here on out.
G90 G1 X-16 Y-2.960
G90 G1 Z-.6
G90 G17 G75 G3 X-17.847 Y-2.315 R2.0 G1 Z-.125
G90 G1 Z.125
G90 G1 X-24 Y-2.841
G90 G1 Z-.375
G90 G1 X-21.895 Y-2.470
G90 G1 Z-.6
G90 G1 X-18.412 Y-1.855
G90 G1 Z-.375
G90 G1 X-18.261 Y-1.829
G90 G1 Y-2.388
G90 G1 X-24 Y-3.4
G90 G1 Z2
M2
And the sub-routine:
(013.TXT)
G90 G1 Z-.6
G91 G1 X-1.455 Y-1.770
G91 G17 G75 G2 X-1.545 R1.0 G1 Z.85
G91 G1 X2.273 Y.885
G90 G1 Z-.6
G91 G17 G75 G2 X-3 R2.0 G1 Z.85
G91 G1 X3
G91 G17 G75 G2 X-3 R2.0 G1 Z-.85
G90 G1 Z.25
G91 G1 X2.273 Y-.885
G91 G17 G75 G2 X-1.545 R1.0 G1 Z-.85
G91 G1 X-1.455 Y1.770
G91 G17 G75 G3 X-1.545 R1.0 G1 Z.85
G91 G1 X2.273 Y-.885
G90 G1 Z-.6
G91 G17 G75 G3 X-3 R2.0 G1 Z.85
G91 G1 X3
G91 G17 G75 G3 X-3 R2.0 G1 Z-.85
G90 G1 Z.25
G91 G1 X2.273 Y.885
G91 G17 G75 G3 X-1.545 R1.0 G1 Z-.85
M99
The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. -- H.L. Mencken
RE: i feel the need the need for speeds and feeds !!
Oh, and all code prior to the M1 at the beginning of the first program are positioning codes for the part offset.
The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. -- H.L. Mencken
RE: i feel the need the need for speeds and feeds !!
RE: i feel the need the need for speeds and feeds !!
Here's part of it:
(10439C-1.TXT)
(SOURCE DWG. P10439C BY J. GUYTON)
(FOR SMURFIT-STONE - HODGE, LA. PM 4 SERPENTINE)
(5/8" CARBIDE END MILL @ 12,500 RPM)
(DOES FIRST HALF OF PART)
(RUN 10439C-2.TXT AFTER REPOSITIONING)
G90 G80 G40 G10
G90 G1 X240.525 F300
G90 G1 Y63.63
G53.1
M1
G90 G1 Z.25
G90 G1 X1.4348 Y-2.2881
G90 G1 Z-.5
G90 G1 Z-.5
G91 G1 Y.5
G91 G1 X-.5
G91 G1 Y-1
G91 G1 X1
G91 G1 Y1
G91 G1 X-.5
G90 G1 X1.4348 Y-2.2881
G90 G1 X-1.5 Y-2.718
G90 G1 Z-.800
G90 G1 X-8.281 Y-3.706
G90 G1 X-9.457 Y-3.868 Z.8
G90 G1 X-8.281 Y-3.706
G90 G1 X-9.457 Y-3.868 Z-.8
G90 G17 G75 G2 X-11.156 Y-3.991 R20
G90 G17 G75 G2 X-12.344 Y-3.991 R20 G1 Z.8
G90 G1 X-11.156 Y-3.991
G90 G17 G75 G2 X-12.344 Y-3.991 R20 G1 Z-.8
G90 G17 G75 G2 X-15.227 Y-3.695 R20
G90 G1 X-17.165 Y-3.353
G90 G1 X-18.335 Y-3.147 Z.8
G90 G1 X-17.165 Y-3.353
G90 G1 X-18.335 Y-3.147 Z-.8
G90 G1 X-20.273 Y-2.805
G90 G17 G75 G3 X-23.156 Y-2.509 R20
G90 G17 G75 G3 X-24.344 Y-2.509 R20 G1 Z.8
G90 G1 X-23.156 Y-2.509
G90 G17 G75 G3 X-24.344 Y-2.509 R20 G1 Z-.8
G90 G17 G75 G3 X-27.227 Y-2.805 R20
G90 G1 X-29.165 Y-3.147
...
And it continues on in that vein for quite a long while; about 8K of text, to be exact.
Anyway, it appears I'm going to have to go through the tedious process of "I"s and "J"s (as opposed to J and K on your system) and splitting the arc travel in half yet again.
The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. -- H.L. Mencken
RE: i feel the need the need for speeds and feeds !!
http://www.thermwood.com/twood_site/pages/thermwoo...
Has anyone messed with the parameters or changed any electronics in the machine?
RE: i feel the need the need for speeds and feeds !!
And I've tried getting info from Thermwood in the past, but they're every bit as uncooperative as Microsoft Customer no-service.
The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. -- H.L. Mencken
RE: i feel the need the need for speeds and feeds !!
The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. -- H.L. Mencken
RE: i feel the need the need for speeds and feeds !!
I'm beginning to get seriously ticked off over this, there's no reason whatsoever for it not to work...
The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. -- H.L. Mencken
RE: i feel the need the need for speeds and feeds !!
RE: i feel the need the need for speeds and feeds !!
This is really becoming a bit of a mind-buster for me :(
It's not holding up production on other orders, though, I'm currently machining them. But, this is really irking me and I wish I could figure out what was going on here...
The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. -- H.L. Mencken
RE: i feel the need the need for speeds and feeds !!
Nate, do you think if I disabled/removed the G75 on the arc lines in the C7015-1P.txt it would make a difference?
The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. -- H.L. Mencken
RE: i feel the need the need for speeds and feeds !!
RE: i feel the need the need for speeds and feeds !!
The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. -- H.L. Mencken
RE: i feel the need the need for speeds and feeds !!
RE: i feel the need the need for speeds and feeds !!
That's when I'll be emailing it (in other words, as soon as I get back to work).
The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. -- H.L. Mencken
RE: i feel the need the need for speeds and feeds !!
I need more info. Could you give me some setup info?
Where's X & Y zero?
If the parts rotated and how much.
A description on the path you're taking?
The tool diameter.
Programming to the center of the tool or side.
Anything you can think of.
I've ran some paths on the slots and inside curvy area but I think something's missing, I should be able to just about recreate your path.
RE: i feel the need the need for speeds and feeds !!
This machine has no tool library capability, so all tool offset G codes are essentially useless--I have to program along centerpoints and calculate the toolpath myself. Though there are two layers for the toolpaths in the .dxf I sent you.
The path(s) follow the inside of that serpentine slot, and the "landings" in the curves are actually inclined surfaces--hence the attempt at helical movement in the program I had already written. The front and end slot-sections have a t-slot in them, but that is a seperate program because of the lack of tool library, and hence, lack of mid-program tool change capability.
This machine is a one-tool, one-setup-per-program deal. Though I can specify up to 9 different offsets in the machine itself in the G53 settings--but I'm having to change this constantly because of variations in clamping procedures for the parts themselves.
Basically, everything in the program prior to the first M1 code consists of the positioning code (aside from the comment lines designating what the program is for and what tool I should be sure to have set up in the spindle) that takes the machine from it's Machine HOME position to the part offset, and it runs from there back towards HOME on the X-axis. Or a 180 degree rotation around the UCS point. In other words, Y is always negative in absolute positioning, as is X.
The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. -- H.L. Mencken
RE: i feel the need the need for speeds and feeds !!
The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. -- H.L. Mencken
RE: i feel the need the need for speeds and feeds !!
I saw you were inquiring about some CAM software. If your company would invest in something good, your turn around time would decrease and modifications to produce would be faster. If they're relying on you to pick it, they'll expect you to work miracles with it.
RE: i feel the need the need for speeds and feeds !!
Thanks,
Nate
RE: i feel the need the need for speeds and feeds !!
Heh, that's kind of the key. I've looked into things like ONECNC and such, from that link given in the thread here on the BOBCAD/CAM discussion somewhere else, and referred them to my immediate superior, but they won't spend the money to purchase that CAM system. Or, rather, the owner of the company refuses to authorize the spending of that much money on a bit of software that "isn't guaranteed to work" as he seems to think.
But let's not get into that one, shall we? That shareware program is essentially the most they're going to spend on a program that "only spits out code for that one CNC machine in the shop". Hell, I had to show them that a High Speed Steel end mill can not perform at the proper feed and speed rates for decent production rates compared to Carbide or even Cobalt end mills.
Anyway, first thing in the morning I'll try to get the .dxf setup for you and I'll email it. I'm at school at the moment :D
The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. -- H.L. Mencken
RE: i feel the need the need for speeds and feeds !!
OMFGNFW!
My supervisor had the CNC folks over at Poli Hi Solidur (our raw stock supplier, for some odd reason) to see if they could generate a CNC program with the source drawing I'm using. The program they returned had Radii of "1.0625" and "1.9374" instead of "1.0" and "2.0, respectively.... Said something about their CAM program returned that value rather than what was in the .dxf because of an intermittent tool path or something like that. Either that, or they just changed it so it would work and told us that.
Either way, I'm putting those radius values into the program and I'm going to try running it as soon as we get a hardware problem on the machine fixed.
...the obsolete motor/drive (the drives that control the motors are so old they predate even the earliest PLC cards) system on it is going haywire (i.e., catastrophic loss of positioning), and there is simply no place to order "new" motors or parts to repair them, as the company that rebuilt the motors for us said they used the last of the parts they had for that particular obsolete motor to fix it the last time we sent it to them.
Like it or not, it looks like the owner of the company is going to have to upgrage/retrofit this machine. :D
The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. -- H.L. Mencken
RE: i feel the need the need for speeds and feeds !!
The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. -- H.L. Mencken
RE: i feel the need the need for speeds and feeds !!
:(
Also, I suspect that I may be approaching the coding of this the wrong way. I may have to just have it carve out the 1" spline path first and then backtrack and carve the 2" radius spline... It appears that having it backtrack at each section of the spline is messing it up. Though I can't exactly test this theory right now with the machine itself being down...
The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. -- H.L. Mencken
RE: i feel the need the need for speeds and feeds !!
RE: i feel the need the need for speeds and feeds !!
In theory, it should work, but I think the machine is balking at all the backtracking, or something...
Either that, or it just doesn't like circular interpolation in incremental mode. :(
Anyway, I'm currently re-writing the entire program so that it's in Absolute positioning... if it works I'll post the resulting program so everyone can gawk at the hideously long program that is bound to result...
The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. -- H.L. Mencken