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A couple "of"

A couple "of"

A couple "of"

(OP)
Is it me, or is this lazy english:

"We can finish the task in a "COUPLE DAYS", but we'll have a "COUPLE WIDGETS" to spare..."

I need a couple tylenols...

tg

RE: A couple "of"

No different than a pair pants, I guess.

RE: A couple "of"

Or a flock birds?

RE: A couple "of"

I agree.

But just wondering from a linguistic standpoint:

Why do we object to "a couple donuts" but there is no problem with "a dozen donuts" ?

I can tolerate "a couple donuts" better than I could tolerate "a dozen of donuts".

Why is that?

Hmm. I'm getting hungry.

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RE: A couple "of"

Seems to be a peculiarly North American problem - I have only ever seen it or heard it used by Americans.  Excuse my ignorance, but is "a pair pants" instead of "a pair of pants" normal over there, or is ml13 being facetious?

Bung
Life is non-linear...

RE: A couple "of"

I can't say that I remember ever hearing "a pair pants" either in the Midwest or the Southeast.  It may be prevalent elsewhere or in some subsets of the population.

There's formal talk, there's casual talk, and there's slang.  The US is a large country with a lot of different regionalisms.  And even in different regions, different groups of people tend to use different elipses.

When I first saw the "couple days" reference, I have to admit thinking of days getting intimate.   [The mind goes in strange directions]

RE: A couple "of"

can tolerate "a couple donuts" better than I could tolerate "a dozen of donuts".

Interesting point. Another point, perhaps related, is that we would be happy to say "dozens of donuts" but less happy with "couples of donuts."
  

RE: A couple "of"

and the pants...  I've definitely heard "three pair pants," but I would say "three pairs of pants."  Still wouldn't say "six couples of donuts."

RE: A couple "of"

and why are they pairs of pants, anyway, when they're individual items?  Is each leg a pant?

RE: A couple "of"

What about "few." "We can finish the task in a 'FEW OF DAYS", but we'll have a "FEW OF WIDGETS" to spare..."

That doesn't sound right.  Is it that although "couple" denotes "2", it's still a singular noun, whereas "few" is always plural?  

But if I say "we'll have a "few of THOSE widgets" to spare..." the dynamic changes, and "few of" is OK.

ChemE, M.E. EIT
"The only constant in life is change." -Bruce Lee

RE: A couple "of"

An oddly similar dropping of words in a sentance...This used to be regional, but seems to be spreading like the plague...

"I'm going to the store.  Do you want to come with?"

I first experienced this while stationed in North Dakota.  I've heard it more and more often in recent years.

RE: A couple "of"

In "a couple of", couple is a noun. In a couple dozen, a couple weeks, a couple drinks, the word is an adjective.  Wonder whether this is the reason for the different usage.
We usually say we have dozen things to do. However a couple... does it mean just two items, or a few more ? Could this be the reason for the acceptance of a couple donuts ? When you ask me to lend you a couple of dollars do you refer just to two dollars or more ?

As for a pair of trousers, the fact that both legs are corresponding but not equal pieces, as in a pair of shoes, a pair of dancers, or a pair of pliers, might, just might, be the reason for the use of the word "pair".

Thanks for any clarification.

RE: A couple "of"

Would anyone like a pair of dollars?

ChemE, M.E. EIT
"The only constant in life is change." -Bruce Lee

RE: A couple "of"

I'm not sure I agree that in "a couple of", couple is a noun.  I think "a couple of" is a determinate phrase, and is treated as an article to the noun that immediately follows, or the noun being quantified by the determinate phrase.

It seems, although I'm by no means certain, that you use "couple of" when the noun immediately follows, but "couple" when the next word is not the noun, but a continuation of the quantifying phrase for the noun.

The phrase "a couple of donuts" contains a quantifying phrase (a couple of) followed by the noun.  The phrase "a couple dozen donuts" also contains a quantifying phrase (a couple dozen) followed by the noun donuts.  Since dozen is not a noun being quantified, but rather an adjective, or quantifier, to the noun, then you drop the “of.”  In other words, the "of" is dropped if between two quantifiers.

RE: A couple "of"

My old dictionaries list "couple" as either a noun or a verb, but not as an adjective.  However, at the speed and frequency that people fracture the language and invent new words, anything is possible.

Anyway, I'd like to have a couple of dollars for every time someone misuses "and I" or "and me."  Poor "and me" hardly ever gets used anymore.  People use "and I" incorrectly so often that I feel as if they think I'm incorrect when I use "and me" as the object of a sentence or preposition.

And while we are on the subject, why is (am?) "I" always capitalized and "me" is not unless it is the first word in the sentence?  Why is (am?) "I" more important than "me" (or should that be more important than "I"?).  Wow, I can't even read this without trying to correct it!

RE: A couple "of"

Cajun,
Interesting.

Quote:

Thus the sentence She lives only a couple of miles away implies not only that the distance is short but that its exact measure is unimportant.

ie a couple of miles is plus or minus an indeterminate distance but two miles is more exact than 2.1 miles.  When given directions I sometimes have to use the trip counter to find where to turn.  There can be a lot of difference between two miles and three miles.

And I counting: one, two, few, many, a lot.

RE: A couple "of"

I think Cajun has got it.  "couple" is indeterminate, while "a dozen" is quantifiable.

"I'd like one donut, two éclairs, three crullers, and a couple croissants."

How many croissants do I get?

Now, go order many donuts.  Wait, too many!  It is

"A couple fewer", or "A couple less" to get the clerk to take some out of the box?

RE: A couple "of"

How is this then?

"Pair", "couple", "brace", "box" are all nouns and need "of" to become an adjectival phrase, such as "pair of pants", "couple of days", "brace of pistols", "box of oranges"

"A dozen" is a number, like "twelve" or "three score". When a number is used to describe a quantity of objects it is an adjective already and does not need to be made into a phrase. Hence "a dozen eggs" "twelve beers" or "three score years"

Jeff

RE: A couple "of"

What Bung might not have heard is that most of us in the USA do not pronounce the "of" in pair of pants.

We say pair o' pants, which when said in conversation, would slur the "o'" into pair, and come out sounding like para pants, and if the speaker was really lazy or not enunciating well, the "o'" slurred or not might not be heard.

How 'bout boxa chocolates.  With a coupla pieces left in it?

Frankly I have never heard pair pants, and I usually note regional dialect differences because of personal interest.

RE: A couple "of"

InHiding: In the aircraft world, the fairing around an aircraft wheel is sometimes called a "pant", so I guess it can be singular, but I can't find this definition in my dictionary.

RE: A couple "of"

pant-leg washer or pants-leg washer?

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RE: A couple "of"

My problem is:

A dozen donuts, instead of a couple of donuts... and now I can't fit into my pair o' pants.

"Going to the store, do you want to come" or
"Going to the store, do you want to come with me?"
Answer to either is NO!

"pant-leg washer"     WHAT??????

RE: A couple "of"

(OP)
It gets worse, here in Canada.

"We're goin' to the corner store to pick up 12 beer."


"You should bring 3 pair of pants."


"And then he says...
 And then I says..."

" And I'm like - yeah dude, go for it.  And he's like - OK, I'll go for it...And I'm like........


Arrrggghhh...
tg

RE: A couple "of"

Trust me...it's not just Canada!

However, if you are going to the corner store for beer I don't care how you say it... hay, why not make it 24!

Rerig

RE: A couple "of"

If you guys are talking about Canada, don't you have to supply a French translation as well?

Anyay, whatever happened to the six-pack? Is this inflation?

JMW
www.viscoanalyser.com
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RE: A couple "of"

24 cans = 1 slab where I come from - 6-packs are for the asocial types.

RE: A couple "of"

24 cans = 1 case.
12 cans = a half-rack -- at least in this neck of the woods.

We have a local with a nickname of half-rack.  Maybe you can guess why.  I guess he is 12 cans short of a case/slab and one sandwich short of a picnic.

Jesus is THE life,
Leonard

RE: A couple "of"

We use to call a six pack a rack. I guess we only drank half of what we could have. Bummer.

How about a bunch of carrots? Or an arms length of hay?

RE: A couple "of"

24 cans = a slab in Australian  vernacular

International College
Naresuan University
Phitsanulok
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