What would you do?
What would you do?
(OP)
Well, since my last post I have received a call from my previous employeer. The previous employeer was my first engineering job as an associate tool design engineer. I worked there for a year then in 2001 I was laid off because of slow business. From my last posts you can tell that I'm rather disenchanted with my current position. It is not giving me the experience that I'm looking for nor is it paying a fair salary. I was laid off for 10 months before I started here so back then I was just happy to have a job that had "engineer" in the title. Well this friday I'm supposed to be meeting with my previous employeer about a new position that opened up. Through a conversation with my old boss, I will be getting more involved with manufacturing, process improvement (six sigma was mentioned)and some FEA analysis. This will help get me heading in a better career direction. I have never left a professional job under my own decision and I'm not sure of the best way to go about it. Is it better to leave a letter of "2 weeks notice" (if there is such a thing) or should I go in and personally speak with my director about the situation. I'm leary of speaking with him because in that case, there will be no hard documentation of my resignation. I've heard from many people here that my company has a habbit of "letting people go" the day that they put their 2 weeks in. So who knows what they are documenting in the employement records. Of course I do not have the job yet, but I do know that I am their leading candidate and I would like some advise on how to handle the situation if it comes.
Thank you in advance,
Sean L.
Thank you in advance,
Sean L.





RE: What would you do?
RE: What would you do?
RE: What would you do?
RE: What would you do?
If you decide to take the job, write a letter of resignation. Don't make it negative. If you have nothing good to say, just say the experience was valuable. Give two weeks notice. If your current employer lays you off you can take comfort in the fact that you did the right thing.
RE: What would you do?
RE: What would you do?
a) the leaving letter, and I suggest you visit the letter of resignation thread for some advise
b) the interview with your old boss about a new job.
Both are important.
One day you may want to return to your current company, or, and this happens increasingly often in engineering, a merger or acquisition could put you back with a previous employer.
Now, to consider your new job. Instbard makes a very good point and if you think this is a good career move then go for it.
But: your old boss approached you.
This means that you are in a sellers market for a change. Make sure that this position is understood and get ready to horse trade.
When he makes an offer, he will offer the minimum he thinks he can get away with. You are there to negotiate from a position of comparative strength. Sit down and list all the benefits he gets by approaching you and be prepared to negotiate some fvalue on them.
You need to present the situation that:
i) you are now in a good well paying and secure job
ii) you are happy there.
Now you need to have a wish list that isn't unreasonable but is demanding and know exactly what your minimum terms are to go back. Anything you get above this is a bonus. Anything your old boss would have agreed to that you don't get is his bonus.
You also need to know that this is a step up for you or, at the least, puts you on a better career path than where you are. It is sometimes necessary to take a step sideways and back to open up a brighter future.
You were let go by this company before when toimes were slow. You must raise this as an issue. It is a valuable bargaining point. In this day and age job security is important. He will not guarantee you it won't happen again but you may be able to negotiate severance terms a good deal more favourable than before.
On salary, to my mind what you earn is between you and your current employer. You say you are not earning a fair wage. Think about what would be a fair wage and consider that if you were getting it you wouldn't want to move for less than a certain % increase. At least, try and discover what this new job should pay in the open market. Note that by approaching you direct he is saving an agents fee if he gets you. He may have some flexibility because of this. He will also save on training as he expects you to be a fast start because you already know the company.
When you resign, you may or may not have to work your notice period. Arrange with your new boss that you will start either when you have worked your notice or when they let you go, whichever is the soonest.
Ifthis is the job you want, the object of the negotiation is to win the job with a good deal. Don't spoil it by playing hard nose and don't sell yourself into slavery by not finding out his top limits. If you don't ask, you don't get.
JMW
www.viscoanalyser.com
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Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.
RE: What would you do?
So does it look good on your resume when a previous employeer takes you back? And when you update this on your resume, do you list both time periods separately or do you combine them and move it to your most recent experience?
RE: What would you do?
RE: What would you do?
RE: What would you do?
I'm probably the worst person in eng-tips to address this since the only time in my life I've left an open-ended job assignment was when I retired last year (my two previous employers were fixed-term jobs that just ended at the end of the term), but something you said above really bothered me.
The question "So does it look good on your resume when a previous employer takes you back?" has a very strong flavor that you have no plans to stay at the new company for more than a year or two. While this may be the reality today, it still sucks. Why can't you enter into a position with the idea that "I'm going to be personally responsible for making this relationship work and I'll be here for the long haul"? I have no problem with you taking an active role in your career management (if you don't who will?), but starting a job with "what can I get from these slugs before I move on?" seems like a recipe for failure and long term dissatisfaction.
Maybe my Fuddy is just getting Duddy in my dotage.
David
RE: What would you do?
Call up your old employer to set up an official interview in which you both can define what it is you will be doing (even if it's the same) with some contingencies if needed.
After that, even if you aren't comfortable with your current employer, talk with him about the situation and what you are thinking. The employer may not like it very much, in which case you will learn more about the quality of manager you are working for now, but at least you are being courteous by not trying to burn bridges. He might be open minded and want to know what he could do to keep you, and perhaps the two of you can negotiate the salaries, position, work, whatever. And when you talk to him, have your resignation letter ready just in case you both agree that your moving on would be best. Should that be the case you can call up your former employer and accept the position, then follow up by giving your current employer a resignation letter, and not have to go home worrying about the next day.
RE: What would you do?
RE: What would you do?
The simple answer to your rehiring question is, "Yes!" Your previous employer who laid you off for lack of work approaches you? I'd say that's a very positive endorsement in what is overall an employer's market. My 2c.
Regarding education for your children... Consider parochial or private. I have been dismayed by the stories related to me by teachers here in the midwest. The more urban the area, the worse the problems seem to be, IMO.
RE: What would you do?
Effectively I got a 60% (ish) pay rise in the eighteen months between walking out the gates and walking back in.
Managers love known quantities, second time around. Franky wrote a song about this.
The way you have to play it is that your negotiating position is strongest before you sign the contract. Get, in writing, some satisfactory description of your expected areas of improvement (ie training), and so on. With your previous experience in that company, and the self confidence from knowing that they want you back, you can afford to be quite aggressive, and you should be able to make it win-win for both parties.
Word of warning: six sigma is meaningless unless the company is commited to it from the top-down. Otherwise it is just the usual Deming/Taguchi/various stuff reheated and with a new label stuck on it.
Cheers
Greg Locock
RE: What would you do?
Give them a notice, if you quit, for sure. You should be able to live without two weeks pay if you have too. Its better not to burn any bridges when you leave. However, if you do burn a bridge (and I have) you still have rights. Your ex employer can not say anything that is not factual and supported by a paper trail, if they are smart. When I leave an employer (I have not yet since burning a bridge) I will immediately hire a third party to call the ex employer and give me a report of the reference check. It only costs $40-$100 and will give you an idea of what the ex employer will say. I did this after getting truned down for a job I was sure I was going to get. My old boss got reemed pretty bad, by me, when I left. I was a little harsh but it had to be said. I was naive enough to think that I would be helping those that I left behind. I just made a little bit more heart ache for myself. Needless to say, the ex boss was returning the favor when potential employers would call him for references. However, after I contacted them they seemed to wake up (serious lawsuit on there hands, potentially). They quickly shut-up and simply give out my name, title, and dates of employment. I still occasionally hire a company to check references whenever I drop a resume somewhere to make sure they are still being "nice". However, it is bridge I wish I didn't burn simply because of the reference.
RE: What would you do?
Prospective Employer (PE) - "Yes, we have that in our materials here. What we hoped for was a more personal reference on the gentleman. Any problems with co-workers, general attitude, stuff like that.
Old Employer (OE) - Well, we try not to deal in areas like that because of the threat of lawsuits. I hope you understand.
PE - You are the most recent employer and he was there for 5 years. Can't you help me out here? Anything?
OE - Well, I don't think we'd hire him back.
PE - Really? Could you give me some details?
OE - No, that lawsuit thing again. But like I said, I'm quite sure we would not bring him back. That's all I'm willing to say.
And there you have it. I have asked the "Would you hire him again?" question when checking references. It gives gunshy past employers a chance to express their displeasure while limiting the exposure for a lawsuit. Sometimes the things that aren't stated carry more weight.
RE: What would you do?
Sometimes it would not be worth pursuing but on other occasions, such as a written report from a third party is all that is needed, no partiallity and a sometimes a voice recording (depends on the state-some allow recording as long as ONE party knows).
RE: What would you do?
Not wishing to put negative thoughts into your head but
quote:
Through a conversation with my old boss, I will be getting more involved with manufacturing, process improvement (six sigma was mentioned)and some FEA analysis.
end quote.
Remember that a lot of peoplpe get told things that will happen in their new position, but which, beacuse of financial or time constraints do not happen.
It may be that he wants you because a) he/she will save money and time on recruitment costs, b) he/she know that you can do the job thus saving money on training.
Remember the grass is not always greener on the other side.
Whatever you do decide to do, you have my best wishes.
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Hope this helps.
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maybe only a drafter
but the best user at this company!
RE: What would you do?
I absolutely agree. Plus, I live in one of those states you refer to. Still, the technique is used. I would have no problem using it even if I were being recorded. You do have to be careful though.
I'm pretty sure at least 2 of my previous employers might try to damage my reputation in this manner. You are known by your enemies as well....
Hopefully, the interviewer is mature enough to realize that there are GOOD reasons for conflict.
RE: What would you do?
I would always insist on have a written contract in my hand before handing in my notice at my current job. You may be treading on thin ice playing one off against the other as well, beware. One thing worth consideration is that a company may offer you very good terms to get you through the door, but may not be so generous when pay review time comes around if you have negotiated to the top end or above of the pay window.
It is very interesting to see the differences between the US and the UK; I am guessing most of the posters are from the US judging by the terminology used. In the UK it is illegal to give a bad reference to anyone, basically you can say nothing bad about him or her, so it is very much what you don’t say rather than what you do. The very worst is “I would confirm that A worked for B between the dates X and Y.”
Notice is also very different, you have to work it out and the company has to employ you or give you paid leave. Under my current contract I am on three months and I am not in a very senior position, although in a somewhat specialised field but this is fairly normal. It does have two sides, whilst if I leave or am made redundant it works in the employees favour not all companies want to wait that long for you to start.
Anyway good luck and I hope things work out well for you.
RE: What would you do?
I suspect the US is not far behind. That's got to be the ultimate irony when people are afraid to tell the truth (or it is outright unlawfull) because of lawyers.
Now a postal supervisor can only say, "Oh, Mr. Widget was an exemplary employee. Certainly kept his AK-47 clean and oiled when he brought it to work."
RE: What would you do?
RE: What would you do?
My thread "Resigning gracefully" touches on this a bit.
Just as an update, my letter was ready to go and my manager and the other higher up were both gone by 4 pm Friday, so thus I will give notice tomorrow.
RE: What would you do?
Thanks again for everyone who has posted their advise. If you still have some thoughts, please feel free to keep this thread going and I hope this thread has helped some of you that are in the same situation.
Sean