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Heard on CNN this morning

Heard on CNN this morning

Heard on CNN this morning

(OP)
Scene:  Female anchor speaking with field reporter in Iraq.

Anchor:  "Do we know if the suicide bomber was killed?"

RE: Heard on CNN this morning

he wasn't killed...he commited suicide
duh

hee hee

RE: Heard on CNN this morning

You've lost me. What's wrong with saying he killed himself ?

RE: Heard on CNN this morning

I suspect he can only conclusively be described as a suicide bomber if he actually died in the blast and it was his intent to do so.
Without a prior declaration or release of prior recorded claims of the intent, a bit presuptive.
Neglecting the IQ level of the journalist, we might suspect this is an emotionally loaded report, though circumstances may justify it if this is a characteristic of the particular terror group involved. We do not, for example, refer to suicide pedestrians or drivers, just victims.

JMW
www.viscoanalyser.com
Eng-Tips: Pro bono publico, by engineers, for engineers.

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

RE: Heard on CNN this morning

I was kidding

RE: Heard on CNN this morning

jmw: I suppose you are also of the opinion that he could not rightfully be described as a bomber if his bomb had not yet exploded, or failed to explode ? We appear to be entering the world of Aristotelian logic and Bertrand Russell here. Seems a little pedantic to me!

RE: Heard on CNN this morning

As with other uses of suicide, you could call him an "attempted suicide bomber" or even possibly the venerable "alleged"

TTFN

RE: Heard on CNN this morning

Actually, this is an example of Russels logic.

It is exactly along the lines of the "If all kings have bald hair not making all bald men kings" type of logic.

The factis that not all terrorist bombers are suicide bombers and not all bombers who blow themselves up are suicide bombers.
 
If the bomb was from a group who routinely dope up guys and brainwash them into blowing themselves up, then fine. He's gonna be a suicide bomber or die trying and can be described as such.

A suicide bomber doesn't get the bomb there and then decide "Hey, i think'll i stick around after all." he goes up with his bomb. Ergo, the question of whether the suicide bomber died presupposes that he messed up and survived not that his survival isn't incidental to the bomb going off.

So if an IRA terrorists blew himself up while planting a bomb we don't call him a suicide bomber just because he was hoist with his own petard (old english shaped charge used for blowing down doors etc... see there is precident). But a sucicide bomber surviving his own bomb is a bit unusual. And hence, if the CNN reporter is accurate in depicting the guys as a suicide bomber the question about if he died or lived is kind of dumb. Its the old "Dog bites man aint news, man bites dog is." Hence she shouldn't be asking the question out of curiosity but remarking on it as an added helping of newsworthiness to yet another terrorist bomb if he did in fact survive.

Anyway, my legs are long enough without you guys yanking on them.

JMW
www.viscoanalyser.com
Eng-Tips: Pro bono publico, by engineers, for engineers.

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

RE: Heard on CNN this morning

Quite. Although hardly a topic for levity I fear. I wonder if Dubya can follow this stuff?

RE: Heard on CNN this morning

I have to think MintJulep's initial post was inspired by the similarity of the exchange to some of the contents of "stupid things people have said in court". (If you've never had them forwarded to you in email, you probably will eventually.)

Some examples:

Q: Was it you or your younger brother who was killed in the war?


Q: How was your first marriage terminated?
A: By death.
Q: And by whose death was it terminated?


Q: Doctor, before you signed the death certificate, did you check for a pulse?
A: No.
Q: Did you check for blood pressure?
A: No.
Q: Did you check for breathing?
A: No.
Q: So, then it is possible that the patient was alive when you signed the certificate?
A: No.
Q: How can you be so sure, Doctor?
A: Because his brain was sitting on my desk in a jar. But now that you mention it, it is possible that he could have been alive and practicing law somewhere.



(Although some would contend that rather than practicing law the individual mentioned in the last example might be digging ditches and enjoying the discussions of language and grammer on Eng-Tips Forums, but I digress....)   

RE: Heard on CNN this morning

When suicide bombers exploded the van bomb outside a nightclub in Bali 18 months ago (killing 250 and maiming more), it was reported that three bombers were in the van.

What were the other 2 doing? Reading the map, looking out for police, or just looking for a night out?

Jeff

RE: Heard on CNN this morning

You presume that the "bomb" was not split amongst the 3.

TTFN

RE: Heard on CNN this morning

maybe one to hold the bomb, one to hold the fuse, one to light it?

RE: Heard on CNN this morning

Maybe they held each other down, so none of them would change their mind.
Sorry.

RE: Heard on CNN this morning

that's funny

RE: Heard on CNN this morning

More breaking news (link from WSJ):

Sunday's Plane Crash Is Pilot's 2nd Fatal Accident"--headline, KOMO-TV Web site (Seattle), May 17

Weekend at Bernie's, no doubt.

RE: Heard on CNN this morning

Actually ml13 that one can make sense.  If it were a passenger who died in the first accident, then this one could be that pilot's second fatal accident, and based on the headline, you cannot assume that it was the pilot who died.

RE: Heard on CNN this morning

It's the way they tell them!

JMW
www.viscoanalyser.com
Eng-Tips: Pro bono publico, by engineers, for engineers.

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

RE: Heard on CNN this morning

Cajun:
That is the point:  the poor construction muddies the meaning.

RE: Heard on CNN this morning

If the pilot had already died, he would not be involved in a 2nd accident of any sort.

There is no ambiguity or confusion.  This is what our brains are supposed to be good.  We can infer from the context of the second accident,

TTFN

RE: Heard on CNN this morning

It also brings into account the concept of "Default Assumptions."  Similar to the old riddle "I can't operate on my son" where we just assume the surgeon is male, we seem to by default assume that if a pilot has a fatal accident that the pilot died.

RE: Heard on CNN this morning

If it's the first one, sure, but by the same reasoning or assumptions, you would assume:

>  he probably died the in the 2nd instance
>  therefore, he didn't die in the 1st instance.

TTFN

RE: Heard on CNN this morning

That may be logical but it is not good communication.

I tend to suspect that when presented with such a construction the first path the brain follows is more likley to be the one which detects the odd or quirky interpretation.

The recognition of the oddness is probably what then prompts the decutive logic.

For the media, it is an example of their not being as thorough in the use of their main tools as they should be.

I suspect most any member here could reconstruct the sentance without the ambiguity.

JMW
www.viscoanalyser.com
Eng-Tips: Pro bono publico, by engineers, for engineers.

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

RE: Heard on CNN this morning

Definition of journalist:

Someone who spent 4 years of college learning to read and wite at an eighth grade level.

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