×
INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS
FOR ENGINEERING PROFESSIONALS

Log In

Come Join Us!

Are you an
Engineering professional?
Join Eng-Tips Forums!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!
  • Students Click Here

*Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.

Students Click Here

Jobs

Concerning Services

Concerning Services

Concerning Services

(OP)
I got this from the list email recently. I found it to be very troubling. If PEs start selling their seal over the internet like this, I think our worth will really plummet. I don't know what the rules are for the states that are being sealed for by this company, but documents have to be prepared under your supervision in the state I am in or else it is unethical to seal them. I would hope all states would adopt a policy such as this to help protect what we have left.  

http://www.engineerapprovals.com/

RE: Concerning Services

I'm forwarding the name and address to the PA board for their review.  I believe it is illegal for a Pennsylvania Engineer to solicit plans for stamping without being the actual engineer doing the design.

RE: Concerning Services

Assuming that the people behind this operation actually exercise the proper amount of care in checking someone's plans, it is ridiculous that they are advertising this service and making it sound like it is as simple as odering take-out.  I can't believe that they can thoroughly check (exercise the proper amount of care) a drawing sheet for $99.  Alert your local engineering organizations.  Alert your local review board that this type of organization exists.

RE: Concerning Services

I live in New Jersey. The State Board here I think would have no problem issuing this guy a stiff fine. Last month they issued one for $16,000.00 for a Surveying Ethics related issue. This guy James Koppenhaver,PE has an active NJPE License. I plan to call the Board to alert them of this slime-ball. Thanks, for the heads-up.

RE: Concerning Services

This is very disturbing.  I found this quote in their "Asssurance to Users" section:

"It is understood the sealed documents are the property of the Respondents, and EngineeerApprovals.com makes no claim to the information contained therein. The service is confidential, and any correspondence on a particular request will only be between EngineeerApprovals.com and the Respondent."

As I understand this, they will seal the documents, but make no claim to the information contained in what they sealed.  HUH?!?!?  Isn't that what sealing documents is - making a legal claim to the information in what you seal.

RE: Concerning Services

Extremely disturbing.  Anyone with further info on this group, please forward to appropriate state boards as JAE and CAP4000 have done.  WE DO NOT NEED THIS IN OUR PROFESSION.

RE: Concerning Services

On this page: http://www.engineerapprovals.com/faq/, the fee is $9.99 per sheet for 50 or more sheets.

Assuming an normal hourly rate of $100, he'd need to crank through a sheet in less than 6 minutes.  Wow!

TTFN

RE: Concerning Services

Pennsylvania has been sent a complaint.

RE: Concerning Services

I sent the state board in Pennsylvania a complaint as well.

RE: Concerning Services

One of our CASE/MN (Council of American Structural Engineers - Minnesota Chapter) membes showed us this flier at the last monthly meeting.  I believe it was agreed that CASE/MN would file a complaint as well to the PA board.

RE: Concerning Services

Holy cow???  Thats stunning.  Simply amazing. As i go through this business accumulating more and more potential future liability with each job ...  they should be run out of town, hung up to dry, out to pasture ... so to speak.

RE: Concerning Services

....run out on a rail, laughed out of the theater, pushed out of the boat...

RE: Concerning Services

I am appalled at such blatant disregard for our profession and the ethics that we should be working by.  It is people like this that give all us hardworking & honest engineers a bad rep.

I am on the board of directors for my state's structural engineers association.  I sent an e-mail to the other borad members that we notify the our state dept. of consumer protection and contact NCSEA to have them put pressure on the states from a national level.

WE should all contact our local structural engineers associations and have them address this and put pressure on the states he is currently registered in.

RE: Concerning Services

I neglected to mention, we should also contact both the national and local chapters of ASCE, SEI, CASE, NSPE and ACEC about this and urge them to put pressure on the states not to allow this.

This type of operation must be stopped for not only our benefit but more importantly for the safety of thge general public.  

On this website, we constatntly see questions from people who have no clue about engineering.  With this type of service, unfortunately, those people are the one's who will be mis-lead and suffer the consequences.  

RE: Concerning Services

Another member of our states structural engineers association input a fictious project into his questionaire.

The project was basically a 15 sheet project that needed a NY stamp.  The website quoted a price of $85 to stamp the drawings.  

He has a disclaimer to "release" him from liability which reads
"Respondent agrees an engineer reviewing and affixing seals to their documents, is in their employ, and is advised that the presenting and responsible party is responsible for the content of the documents, and an engineer employed in this manner, and not as an independent consultant, is protected from liability. Respondent is aware the presenting and responsible party demonstrates through their documents, intent on compliance with the codes as determined by the authority requiring the seal. Respondent also agrees any liability arising from use of the sealed documents, is the responsibility of those who retain and expect benefit from use of the documents, such the presenting and responsible party, the property owner(s), and contractors involved, and not EngineerApprovals.com."

RE: Concerning Services

Just keeping eveyone updated on the unfolding story......

I sent an e-mail to a friend of mine who is involved with SEI.

Attached are his comments:

"I have shared your information with the SEI board and have heard that this made the rounds yesterday with the Structure magazine group, and it has been said he's being sued in several jurisdictions, so I don't think he'll be in business very long.   

Also, his website says that "It is understood the sealed documents are the property of the Respondents, and EngineerApprovals.com makes no claim to the information contained therein"

…so, I would think most boards would not let this individual practice in their state, even though they may allow "plan stamping".  

Thanks for bringing this issue to my attention.  I will update you on other measures that is taken or are suggested."


RE: Concerning Services

I'm quite impressed with how many stepped in here and responded to this unfortunate situation.  I wonder how much this Eng-Tips thread energized all the activity. (not the lawsuits of course).

RE: Concerning Services

This web site really ruffled my feathers. This is plans stamping! It is not allowed in Florida. However, it did not stop some PEs from doing it in the past.

I will share this with the ASCE membership in my area. I will also forward the information to our Board so that they can keep an eye on such activities.

I hope that no Florida PEs participate in this act!

RE: Concerning Services

Just a quick update on what additional information I received.

I have attched portions of two e-mails that I rec'd....They give you the jest of what has been happening.

The first is from ASCE General Councel......"I understand the Pennsylvania Society of Professional Engineers has gotten involved in contacting the engineer who is running this site.  I also spoke to one ASCE member in Alabama who reported this to the Alabama State Licensing Board, which likely can't do much more than send a letter to the state licensing boards in Pennsylvania, Maryland, New Jersey and New York, where the engineer apparently is licensed.  This would appear to be a clear violation of the Pennsylvania licensing regulations, which provide that "[a] registrant may use his seal and signature only when the work being sealed and signed was prepared by the registrant or under the registrant's complete direction and control." See  <http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/049/chapter37/s37.59.html>
http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/049/chapter37/s37.59.html.  The Pennsylvania Licensing Board tells me the individual is a licensed P.E. in Pennsylvania in good standing.  Although he is not an ASCE member, I sent him an e-mail last week advising him of the Pennsylvania regulations and apparent clear infraction, with a suggestion that he immediately cease this practice.  I would not expect this to continue very long in light of the many communications and contacts on this issue, but I agree it certainly has mobilized the engineering community and brought attention to the important issue of sealing plans."

Next.is from thye West Virginia Dept of Consumer Protectoion's Office......."FYI...

This information has been circulating over the past few weeks.  Many of the state board investigators are on top of this and all states have been alerted via the NCEES listserve.  I expect there will be several to take action if appropriate (my understanding is that he is only licensed in 3-5 states).  Our engineering professionals are very observant and word travels fast.  I received about 50 similar emails from other engineers in the past few weeks regarding the service.  It is producing lively discussion and discontent!  Stay tuned!"


RE: Concerning Services

Cool

RE: Concerning Services

FYI...I received the attached copy of a letter sent out by ASCE to a number of SE's:

Greetings,

Please see the attached e-mail relating to engineerapprovals.com.  I sent this on to the Committee on Professional Conduct a couple weeks ago, and as you can see from the attached, it has been circulated on the NCEES list serve and to state investigators.  Any individual can forward a complaint in Pennsylvania by contacting http://www.ncees.org/licensure/licensing_boards/pennsylvania.php.
Individuals also can contact the licensing Boards in New Jersey, New York or Maryland, where the individual(s) involved apparently also is licensed. (see http://www.ncees.org/licensure/licensing_boards/ for licensing board contact information).  I know of a number of complaints that already have been filed.  This appears to be a clear violation of Pennsylvania licensing regulations, which allow for suspension or revocation of a license for use of a professional seal on work over which the engineer was not in responsible charge.  Please let me know if anyone has any questions.

Best regards,

Tom

RE: Concerning Services

Denoid.....I dodn't see an attachement.

Is there a "special" way to access them?

RE: Concerning Services

Oops...sorry, I forgot the attached portion.

Actually, there was more than one e-mail attached to the one I posted.  I'll copy all of them below, without the names of the individuals sending them, for privacy reasons.
Here they are:


(E-mail #1)
Subject: Interesting Site. Gives a new meaning to Professional Engineer.

I have rec'd info regarding a company stamping plans on the internet.  I believe this is in violation of many states PE laws.

The website is:  http://www.engineerapprovals.com/.

According to the website, he will stamp your plans for $99 per sheet with a sliding scale down to about $10 per sheet if over 50 sheets.

This person also goes on to say that he plans on becoming licenses in all 50 states (he is licensed in 4 now, PA NY NJ, and Maryland).

According to this link, http://euken.com/group/seaoc/mailarchive/2004b/msg00172.html, Texas has sent him a letter stating why it would be illegal for him to do this there and will act accordingly should he seek registration there.

Is this person an ASCE or SEI member?  Is there anything we can do to help him realize engineering is not just about putting seals on drawings?




(E-mail #2)
Subject: RE: Interesting Site. Gives a new meaning to Professional Engineer.


I would agree that what he is doing is not legal in most states (and if not, it should be).  I actually clicked through the submission process and was told I could get 20 sheets stamped for $320.  Given that this individual states:

"It is understood the sealed documents are the property of the Respondents, and EngineerApprovals.com makes no claim to the information contained therein"

,I would think most boards would not let this individual practice in their state, even though they may allow "plan stamping".


(E-mail #3)
Hi everyone,

Just a quick note about this website - this website came to the attention of ASCE about 2 weeks ago and ASCE's Professional Practices Committee, ASCE's legal counsel, and NSPE are presently investigating its legality.

I've copied ASCE's counsel (Tom Smith) and Director of Professional Practice (Walt Marlowe) so that, as appropriate, they can provide additional information.




(Now you can go back & read my previous post)

RE: Concerning Services

Has any one heard of what is going on with?  I haven't heard anything in a while.

Red Flag This Post

Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework.

Red Flag Submitted

Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.
The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action.

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Eng-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members!


Resources