Concerning Services
Concerning Services
(OP)
I got this from the list email recently. I found it to be very troubling. If PEs start selling their seal over the internet like this, I think our worth will really plummet. I don't know what the rules are for the states that are being sealed for by this company, but documents have to be prepared under your supervision in the state I am in or else it is unethical to seal them. I would hope all states would adopt a policy such as this to help protect what we have left.
http://www.engineerapprovals.com/
http://www.engineerapprovals.com/






RE: Concerning Services
RE: Concerning Services
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RE: Concerning Services
"It is understood the sealed documents are the property of the Respondents, and EngineeerApprovals.com makes no claim to the information contained therein. The service is confidential, and any correspondence on a particular request will only be between EngineeerApprovals.com and the Respondent."
As I understand this, they will seal the documents, but make no claim to the information contained in what they sealed. HUH?!?!? Isn't that what sealing documents is - making a legal claim to the information in what you seal.
RE: Concerning Services
RE: Concerning Services
Assuming an normal hourly rate of $100, he'd need to crank through a sheet in less than 6 minutes. Wow!
TTFN
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RE: Concerning Services
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http://euken.com/group/seaoc/mailarchive/2004b/msg00172.html
RE: Concerning Services
I am on the board of directors for my state's structural engineers association. I sent an e-mail to the other borad members that we notify the our state dept. of consumer protection and contact NCSEA to have them put pressure on the states from a national level.
WE should all contact our local structural engineers associations and have them address this and put pressure on the states he is currently registered in.
RE: Concerning Services
This type of operation must be stopped for not only our benefit but more importantly for the safety of thge general public.
On this website, we constatntly see questions from people who have no clue about engineering. With this type of service, unfortunately, those people are the one's who will be mis-lead and suffer the consequences.
RE: Concerning Services
The project was basically a 15 sheet project that needed a NY stamp. The website quoted a price of $85 to stamp the drawings.
He has a disclaimer to "release" him from liability which reads
"Respondent agrees an engineer reviewing and affixing seals to their documents, is in their employ, and is advised that the presenting and responsible party is responsible for the content of the documents, and an engineer employed in this manner, and not as an independent consultant, is protected from liability. Respondent is aware the presenting and responsible party demonstrates through their documents, intent on compliance with the codes as determined by the authority requiring the seal. Respondent also agrees any liability arising from use of the sealed documents, is the responsibility of those who retain and expect benefit from use of the documents, such the presenting and responsible party, the property owner(s), and contractors involved, and not EngineerApprovals.com."
RE: Concerning Services
I sent an e-mail to a friend of mine who is involved with SEI.
Attached are his comments:
"I have shared your information with the SEI board and have heard that this made the rounds yesterday with the Structure magazine group, and it has been said he's being sued in several jurisdictions, so I don't think he'll be in business very long.
Also, his website says that "It is understood the sealed documents are the property of the Respondents, and EngineerApprovals.com makes no claim to the information contained therein"
…so, I would think most boards would not let this individual practice in their state, even though they may allow "plan stamping".
Thanks for bringing this issue to my attention. I will update you on other measures that is taken or are suggested."
RE: Concerning Services
RE: Concerning Services
I will share this with the ASCE membership in my area. I will also forward the information to our Board so that they can keep an eye on such activities.
I hope that no Florida PEs participate in this act!
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I have attched portions of two e-mails that I rec'd....They give you the jest of what has been happening.
The first is from ASCE General Councel......"I understand the Pennsylvania Society of Professional Engineers has gotten involved in contacting the engineer who is running this site. I also spoke to one ASCE member in Alabama who reported this to the Alabama State Licensing Board, which likely can't do much more than send a letter to the state licensing boards in Pennsylvania, Maryland, New Jersey and New York, where the engineer apparently is licensed. This would appear to be a clear violation of the Pennsylvania licensing regulations, which provide that "[a] registrant may use his seal and signature only when the work being sealed and signed was prepared by the registrant or under the registrant's complete direction and control." See <http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/049/chapter37/s37.59.html>
http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/049/chapter37/s37.59.html. The Pennsylvania Licensing Board tells me the individual is a licensed P.E. in Pennsylvania in good standing. Although he is not an ASCE member, I sent him an e-mail last week advising him of the Pennsylvania regulations and apparent clear infraction, with a suggestion that he immediately cease this practice. I would not expect this to continue very long in light of the many communications and contacts on this issue, but I agree it certainly has mobilized the engineering community and brought attention to the important issue of sealing plans."
Next.is from thye West Virginia Dept of Consumer Protectoion's Office......."FYI...
This information has been circulating over the past few weeks. Many of the state board investigators are on top of this and all states have been alerted via the NCEES listserve. I expect there will be several to take action if appropriate (my understanding is that he is only licensed in 3-5 states). Our engineering professionals are very observant and word travels fast. I received about 50 similar emails from other engineers in the past few weeks regarding the service. It is producing lively discussion and discontent! Stay tuned!"
RE: Concerning Services
RE: Concerning Services
Greetings,
Please see the attached e-mail relating to engineerapprovals.com. I sent this on to the Committee on Professional Conduct a couple weeks ago, and as you can see from the attached, it has been circulated on the NCEES list serve and to state investigators. Any individual can forward a complaint in Pennsylvania by contacting http://www.ncees.org/licensure/licensing_boards/pennsylvania.php.
Individuals also can contact the licensing Boards in New Jersey, New York or Maryland, where the individual(s) involved apparently also is licensed. (see http://www.ncees.org/licensure/licensing_boards/ for licensing board contact information). I know of a number of complaints that already have been filed. This appears to be a clear violation of Pennsylvania licensing regulations, which allow for suspension or revocation of a license for use of a professional seal on work over which the engineer was not in responsible charge. Please let me know if anyone has any questions.
Best regards,
Tom
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Is there a "special" way to access them?
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Actually, there was more than one e-mail attached to the one I posted. I'll copy all of them below, without the names of the individuals sending them, for privacy reasons.
Here they are:
(E-mail #1)
Subject: Interesting Site. Gives a new meaning to Professional Engineer.
I have rec'd info regarding a company stamping plans on the internet. I believe this is in violation of many states PE laws.
The website is: http://www.engineerapprovals.com/.
According to the website, he will stamp your plans for $99 per sheet with a sliding scale down to about $10 per sheet if over 50 sheets.
This person also goes on to say that he plans on becoming licenses in all 50 states (he is licensed in 4 now, PA NY NJ, and Maryland).
According to this link, http://euken.com/group/seaoc/mailarchive/2004b/msg00172.html, Texas has sent him a letter stating why it would be illegal for him to do this there and will act accordingly should he seek registration there.
Is this person an ASCE or SEI member? Is there anything we can do to help him realize engineering is not just about putting seals on drawings?
(E-mail #2)
Subject: RE: Interesting Site. Gives a new meaning to Professional Engineer.
I would agree that what he is doing is not legal in most states (and if not, it should be). I actually clicked through the submission process and was told I could get 20 sheets stamped for $320. Given that this individual states:
"It is understood the sealed documents are the property of the Respondents, and EngineerApprovals.com makes no claim to the information contained therein"
,I would think most boards would not let this individual practice in their state, even though they may allow "plan stamping".
(E-mail #3)
Hi everyone,
Just a quick note about this website - this website came to the attention of ASCE about 2 weeks ago and ASCE's Professional Practices Committee, ASCE's legal counsel, and NSPE are presently investigating its legality.
I've copied ASCE's counsel (Tom Smith) and Director of Professional Practice (Walt Marlowe) so that, as appropriate, they can provide additional information.
(Now you can go back & read my previous post)
RE: Concerning Services