Performance of Matrix Harmonic Filters - for the eyes of Drive Experts
Performance of Matrix Harmonic Filters - for the eyes of Drive Experts
(OP)
In another thread, jbartos referred an interesting article by MTE corp about the performance of the Matrix Harmonic Filter (with 6 pulse rectifier) claiming it to be the best bet as compared to 12/18 pulse rectifiers with line reactors for harmonic reduction.
The article can be downloaded/read at (thx to jb)
http://www.mtecorp.com/mitigation.pdf
I am interested to know from end users/drive experts whether all that is claimed in this article is true enough; or it is just a hard sell rubbishing competitors.
The article can be downloaded/read at (thx to jb)
http://www.mtecorp.com/mitigation.pdf
I am interested to know from end users/drive experts whether all that is claimed in this article is true enough; or it is just a hard sell rubbishing competitors.





RE: Performance of Matrix Harmonic Filters - for the eyes of Drive Experts
Unfortunately, there is very little information about how this beast works. I have seen some information about filters for drives where they have a similar description and some very good claimed results. From what I have been able to glean so far, these are dsigned a little bit like a transmission line with a low frequency cutoff.
I have seen information coming and going for some years about this type of filter, but apart from the manufacturers data, I have not seen any other information.
I contacted one manufacturer for more information, even offered to buy one and install it in an ideal installation that was in desperate need of the quoted results. Things all of a sudden when quiet. I am not sure why, but it may have been that there was an inactive local agent. Often happens down here. The typical scenario, is that an Australian company collects the agency to add to their list, claim New Zealand as part of their territory, and then sit on the product etc effectively blocking access to us down under, and not even selling well in Aus!!
In theory, I can see merit in this type of approach, my concern is how this would perform on a high impedance inductive supply as is common out here in the rural areas. We find that supply resonance is a major issue and I wonder how this type of filter would behave under these conditions. Would it become part of a resonant supply??
I would be interested in any further information on these filters.
Best regards,
Mark Empson
http://www.lmphotonics.com
RE: Performance of Matrix Harmonic Filters - for the eyes of Drive Experts
http://www.mirusinternational.com
or
http://www.mirusinternational.com/pages/faq.html#uhf
for:
Lineator-Matrix Passive Harmonic Filter
and
http://www.mirusinternational.com/downloads/uhf_faq12.pdf
http://www.mirusinternational.com/downloads/uhf_faq19.pdf
for: Details
RE: Performance of Matrix Harmonic Filters - for the eyes of Drive Experts
Thx jb. I don't know how you manage to catch those sites in the vast ocean of internet. Have you ever given a serious thought to own a dot.com start up to scare the pants off google?
RE: Performance of Matrix Harmonic Filters - for the eyes of Drive Experts
Claims like those that Mirus publish can be pure nonsense - or wonderful news. It is difficult to say which, and I would like to believe what they say. But I find it difficult for several reasons. One is that the technology ought to be known by most of us if it really were as good as Mirus says. Another reason is that the principles behind the UHF are kept away from the public. The third reason is that some of their material makes one wonder if they are careless or if they are somewhat bending the facts.
One example: [http://www.ecsintl.com/pdf/Outperform%20K-rated.pdf] This article compares performance of K-rated transformers vs the LINEATOR. Figure 3 shows that flat-topping reduces the DC link voltage in an SMPS - and we all agree on that one - but it also shows that the droop rate is more than twice as fast when the DC link voltage has been reduced (red curve) with ten percent. It is true that the inverter consumes more current when the DC input is reduced, but the droop rate should not be more than about 10 percent faster when starting from 90 percent of rated voltage (constant power to the load).
I wish that what they claim is true, but I do not find any explanation as to how they do it and that makes me cautious. Keep us posted if you find out how the LINEATOR works.
RE: Performance of Matrix Harmonic Filters - for the eyes of Drive Experts
RE: Performance of Matrix Harmonic Filters - for the eyes of Drive Experts
The problem I see with all of them is that they all sell only one solution, often at the expense of another or any other. When you read through the sales literature you can't help but notice their slanted view and I for one am a little skeptical. The only reason why I ended up trying both was because I let my customers decide on their own and I stayed out of it. Were I to be put on the spot to decide which way to go I would opt for an active harmonic filter and damn the cost.
"Venditori de oleum-vipera non vigere excordis populi"
RE: Performance of Matrix Harmonic Filters - for the eyes of Drive Experts
It would be nice if they had told us. The way the UHF is presented made me think that there is a new unknown way of doing it. We have been using Z transformers for improving short-circuit power on small generating units for many years and they also improve the V THD, mainly because of the lower impedance.
Nothing more to it than a Z transformer and some capacitors?
RE: Performance of Matrix Harmonic Filters - for the eyes of Drive Experts
BTW, rumor is that some of their (Mirus') engineers split off and formed a new competitor. I have their name somewhere, I'll post it when I find it.
"Venditori de oleum-vipera non vigere excordis populi"
RE: Performance of Matrix Harmonic Filters - for the eyes of Drive Experts
RE: Performance of Matrix Harmonic Filters - for the eyes of Drive Experts
One example: [http://www.ecsintl.com/pdf/Outperform%20K-rated.pdf] This article compares performance of K-rated transformers vs the LINEATOR.
///I was trying to find LINEATOR cited in the link and I could not find it. However, the presented comparison of K-rated transformers with Harmonic Mitigating Transformer (HMT) is carefully documented therein. Obviously, the HMT is a different harmonic mitigating device from LINEATOR. The HMT is essentially modified transformer with special winding connections to trap harmonics. The LINEATOR is a passive harmonic filter with high input impedance to harmonics and high output impedance to harmonics. This means that it is the low pass passive filter fitted in line conductors of the nonlinear load.
Visit
http://www.mirusinternational.com/downloads/L-S001-C5%20(Lineator%20Tech%20Sheet%2060Hz).pdf
http://www.mirusinternational.com/downloads/UHF-PS01-C%20(Lineator%20Brochure).pdf
(see the advantages of LINEATOR)\\\
RE: Performance of Matrix Harmonic Filters - for the eyes of Drive Experts
No, it is not just a Zig Zag transformer and for those who want an explanation of how it works plus some field test results , I will be happy to supply them or ask Mirus direct .
The main problem that these devices have had in the past is that to avoid excessive volt drop at the drive terminals , large amounts of Capacitance have been used.This then leads to high DC bus voltages and leading Power Factors at reduced loadings. The Mirus product (and possibly others) have solved this problem.
RE: Performance of Matrix Harmonic Filters - for the eyes of Drive Experts
Thx for your feedback. Could you possibly mail mail me (to the id in my profile) your article on how Mirus products work and also the e-mail id of the contact person at Mirus. I sent a mail to them last week thru' their website and recd no reply till date.
Thx again.
RE: Performance of Matrix Harmonic Filters - for the eyes of Drive Experts
The MTE Matrix is a rough copy of the Mirus unit. It's about 3-4 times the size and inferior to a significant degree (in my opinion) to the Mirus unit. Also, read the small print re "cannot guarantee performance if the Vthd is more than 0%", etc or "if voltage imbalance is more than 1%"....
The Mirus units is not a zig zag transformer, which as some of the so called experts should know, is for mitigation of zero sequence harmonics. I don't see any of those in 5, 7, 11, 13...etc. {+ve and -ve, yes !} Triplens (3, 9, 15...) but not 6n +/-1 characteristic harmonics.
The Lineator is a patented multi-limbed reactor (which has a large number of mutual inductances)with a small capacitor bank. When connected to standard 6 pulse VFDs with diode or SCR pre-charge front bridge DOES reduce the Ithd from around 37-40% (based on either 3% AC line or DC bus reactance {5% source impedance} to 5-8 % GUARANTEED. The performance I have seen on various sites is often below 5% Ithd and on a par with active filters. Unlike the Matric filter this is irrespective of voltahe imbalance (which seriously effects 12 and 18 pulse drives) AND any pre-existing Vthd. On many sites (ask Toshiba, Houston) Lineator outforms active filters (I have no axe to grind here as we also use active units). However, for VFD applications Lineator is on a par, if not better than active, at under half the price and none of the hassle (like $ 1500 a day commissioning charges !)
How does it work....Well, the output voltage waveform from Lineator is trapezoidal which forces the input devices in the drive front end to conduct for a longer period with a lower peak hence reducing the Ithd to ~ 5%. Simple as that !
Also, Lineator can be used on single and multiple drives. I have personally been involved in projects for group mitigation up 1500HP/1100kW. Works great. A 'fit and forget product'.
Talking about efficiencies....A standard 6 pulse VFD/Lineator is generally 3-4% more efficient than 12 or 18 pulse drives. For energy efficient applications this is important. Active filters have around 4-5% losses dependent on the carrier frequency.
Drives with active front ends (sinusoidal rectifiers) are fine if you need regen braking but they have a large EMI footprint and need large AC line reactors and high frequency passive filters to attenuation the input bridge carrier frequency (2-3.5kHz)so it doesn't interfere with mains switching devices. They are fine if you can afford them - ABB ans Vacon reckon AFE drives are 2.2 x 2.5 the cost of standard 6 pulse drives.
Why don't you guys talk to the major drives companies who have taken the Mirus Lineator onboard over the last few years. I understand there are almost 3000 installations now throughout the world in powers to around 2000HP/1500kW. Speak to ABB, Siemens, Vacon, Cutler Hamer, Square D, Toshiba, Control Techniques, Invertek et al or the users worldwide.
I also hear in the grapevine that the new Lineator can maybe also work with SCR fully controlled front end, AC and possibily DC. I have no corrobation of that though. You'll have to ask Mirus yourselves. The details are on the net.
There also a few Lineator variants I believe -
i) One which can be connected to the primary of an existing 12 pulse drive - this reduces the Ithd from ~10-15% (dependent on whether double wound or polygonal autotransformers) to around 2-4% similar to 18-30 pulse drives (in plain English - "not quite as good as 36 pulse, but not far off". I understand the physical size of this units to around 30% of the kVA size of drive.
ii) For application where three phases mains is not available there is a variant (never tried one yet) which permits the connection of three phase VFDs without the usual derating and provided harmonic mitigation to around 8% Ithd.
iii) There is aslo I believe (again never used one yet) there is a TransLineator (a transformer with a integrated Lineator obviously for applications where voltage transformation is required and/or galvanic isolation {e.g. on ships with IT networks (insulated neutrals - standard drive EMC filters cannot be used here so the isolating transformers acts as the common mode noise filter for the drives).
Anyway, rather than gossip on the net like a bunch of "old sweetie wives" {Scottish expression} talk to some of the drives companies or users (people at the front end) about their experiences with Lineator OR talk to Mirus themselves. I have personally found the Mirus guys very approachable and up front. They won't spin you a line - afterall the Lineator is guaranteed to do what they say it does or you get your money back - that's deal.
Anybody want any clarification or additional info re Lineator, active filters, active front ends, etc. drop me an email.
Regards
ICEMAN
P.S. Now I have a question for you guys which you can happily discuss over the garden fence......What do you all know about DUPLEX REACTORS ?
RE: Performance of Matrix Harmonic Filters - for the eyes of Drive Experts
RE: Performance of Matrix Harmonic Filters - for the eyes of Drive Experts
RE: Performance of Matrix Harmonic Filters - for the eyes of Drive Experts
It may be that the LINEATOR is well known and widely used in the US. The situation over here in Europe is that most manufacturers (I have talked to centrally located development departments in Erlangen, Pacy, Wales and Helsinki) and nowhere did they know about this wonder. These people are actively looking for something as good as the LINEATOR, but are using AFE or conventional filters in applications where low mains harmonics are needed.
The reason could very well be complete ignorance from their part, but I find it hard to believe that deveplopers have not heard about something as good as this seems to be. As long as the LINEATOR guys cannot (or will not) show how they do it, most engineers will not believe their claims.
I am as much against "garden fence gossip and crap" as you are. But as long as we cannot be given the facts, we can only exchange our thoughts and try to understand by discussing the matter here in our little "garden". I welcome a link to a site where the working principles are described. That would end the "gossip" effectively.
You are welcome to produce that link. Here.
And, sed2developer: What is your thinking here? I have understood that you are actively involved in Ithd mitigation and that you are closely connected to Erlangen.
RE: Performance of Matrix Harmonic Filters - for the eyes of Drive Experts
AFE is better than LINEATOR since it permits reverse energy flow from the load to the supply (4-quadrant VFD).
I do not think that many engineers "believe", they go by engineering theory, analysis/calculations, data sheets, specifications, test results, reliability results, etc.
RE: Performance of Matrix Harmonic Filters - for the eyes of Drive Experts
The 'sweetie wife' comments were to solicit a response. It worked !
Re 'edison123' - if Mirus haven't replied to your email interest I would phone them. If you want to email me direct use mailevans@tiscali.co.uk but I'd go to Mirus in the first instance.
Re 'jbartos' - there is lot of test data from Lineator out there. I suggest you try Toshiba Houston, ABB US, Siemens Canada, Alstom UK, Vacon Finland, etc. Whether the drive companies will give you them is another matter. Some seem to not want to advert their harmonic performance without mitigation.
Now the biggie -'skogsgurra'. You sound like a 'scanda-hooligan' so you must work for ABB. I agree with you that most European seem to not to look at Lineator as an option. This is mainly due to ignorance but it is also due to the fact that they still hide behind the fallacy of 12 pulse drives. In the absence of a sensible and coherent EU harmonic standard which can be policed drive companies fall back on the 12 pulse. Read any spec and the answer to drive harmonics is 12 pulse drives - they don't say whether that should be double wound or polygonal and as you know there is a big difference in performance between the two. Also, compared to 12 pulse Lineator may look slightly more expensive. (The fact that it rarely now complies any national harmonics standard is often overlooked). That may so on the suface but once the real additional cost of 12 pulse drives (not just the transformer is taken into account) Lineator is more attractive. In the UK Lineator is now used by water companies, one of the most conservative users. I have seen applications where large installations of both Vacon and ABB drives are fed from common Lineators.
As for Erlangen - the Siemens drives team is large and the large I heard Siemens were wanting to push their active filter for drive applications (as were Group Schneider). As far as I am aware Siemens in Canada use Lineator all the time so why don't Siemens in Europe ? Maybe it's the 'not designed here' syndrome !
Wales - well having a Welsh name help here. The only two drives companies of any real size in Wales are Control Techniques (Emerson in the US) and Invertek Drives {CT spin off}...both have purchased Lineator and I was talking to a guy last week who bought a 600HP Lineator/CT drive package from CT some time last year. It is installed on a cable ship in the Arabian Gulf and is seemingly working brilliantly. So much so that he was looking for Mirus telephone so he could look at buying more.
Skogsgurra is right though. There is not enough information in Europe about Lineator. You have got to remember that the Europeans are 5-10 years behind North America in harmonics and power quality issues. It's a matter of education but the European market is much more fragimented by the US. They don't have the benefit of IEEE 519 (2001) to focus minds ! The UK has G5/4 (2001) which, after working with '519' is a wee bit more complex. So complex that the application guide has not yet been issued, 3 years 5 months after the recommendations were issued.
I think the problem re Mirus publishing 'how it works; is more to do with the fact that Lineator is a patented technology which has had its 'copiers' in past. One is named after a movie and the other is based in another scanda-hooligan country called Denmark. Of course, both parties will deny it. Actually, from what I know of it Lineator is a simple but very complex product in design and is very hard to copy correctly.
OK. I have dealt with Erlangen, Wales; Helsinki is ABB as Vacon are in Vaasa and a big user of Lineator. Well, I was informed last week that a 1200HP Lineator was on it's way to Ireland for use with ABB drives. I think you should talk to Alf-Kare Adnanes of ABB Marine - I believe they are waiting to test a Lineator very soon. If you do work for ABB you;ll find him in the ABB phone list. If you are not with ABB email me at the address given above and I'll tried and get the details to you.
Actually, talking about gardens...it would be really nice with summer upon us to all gather in garden with a few beers and 'blether' {Scottish word for informal discussion} on the subject of drives and harmonics.
OK. I've kinda of wandered here....Another difference between MTE and Mirus is regarding the application with generator derived supplies (either standby or constant). Lineator has aroud 15% of the kVA tied up in kVAr whereas Matrix is 30%. That makes a big difference as to whether it works successfully on generators.
A year or so ago I make up a chart listing the salient differences between Matrix and Lineator. Email me at the address above if you want a copy.
A final comment re 'jbartos' and AFE. I agree AFE are for regen drives. Wunderbar - what use is that on a centrifugal pump ? On a crane fine but for a single quadrant drive (87% of the drives market !)? As I said yesterday :-
i) The EMI footprint of AFE drives are 100% more than 6 pulse therefore additional cost in attentuating that.
ii) Reliability is reduced. I was on a project in the UAE some years ago. Water pumping application. The client bought 5 x 900HP drives soley on the basis that they were 'sexy' as far as harmonics were concerned. They all failed at least twice in the first two years. When an AFE drive fails the pump fails and you do not water supply. If an active filter (parallel device) fails (I know these well too) the drive carries on, albeit with harmonics (which on a square law load are approx. proporation to the cube of the load). If a Lineator fails (serial device){never heard of any failures yet mind you} it can easily be bypass }automatically or manually} - in both case system integrity is maintained and everybody is relatively happy.
ii) Cost is a big issue. As I said yesterday ABB and Vacon reckon that an AFE version of their 6 pulse drives are between 2.2.- 2.5 more than 6 pulse drives. That's slightly more on average than active filters applied holistically. I believe the ratio of a standard 6 pulse drive/Lineator is in the region of 1.5-1.7.
If 'sed2developer' or 'skogsgurra' want to email me I'll what more I can give on operation of Lineator but I have to agree with you this kind of information is very scare.
OK. That's me done my bit again BUT to date I have no replies re DUPLEX REACTORS and if the man is from ABB he will no that ABB recently used them on some 40MW cycloconverter main propulsion drives. Let's have some feedback here please.
ICEMAN
RE: Performance of Matrix Harmonic Filters - for the eyes of Drive Experts
1. I have already received the MIRUS provided test results for LINEATOR as I indicated in my previous posting.
2. Presently, LINEATOR has some limit in HP, say between 1000HP and 1500HP or so. If there are VFDs for motors over this HP limit, they still have to use phase shifters, AFE or very good harmonic filtering on their input side.
3. AFE is sometimes used just for its low input harmonic content, not necessarily for 4-quadrant VFD applications only.
4. There are numerous applications where 4-quadrant drives are beneficial, e.g. elevators, electrical vehicles, any motor propelled load with high inertia being frequently reversed, etc.
RE: Performance of Matrix Harmonic Filters - for the eyes of Drive Experts
I agree that AFE drives can and are purchased for harmonic attenutation purposes only. What I was trying to say was that there are far more cost effective ways of reaching ~5% Ithd than AFE. The EMI issue is a major one too. Maybe in North America EMC (electro-magnetic compatibility) is not really an issue but in Europe and most other parts of the world it is. Reliability is far better than in mid 90's when I was involved in a UAE project with AFE drives (mentioned in my last reply but is still a consideration). All three are very valid reasons to look at all the drive harmonic options.
Lineator in the Mirus brochure is only to 1500HP I agree but the range and designs are available for excess of 2500kW/3300HP. I know that for sure. In addition, some major drive companies (one being ABB) are looking to Mirus for MV versions of the device (up to 6.6kV) which would take it range based on current designs up to around 10MW/13,400HP. I beleive, but don't quote me that they are looking right now to build an MV Lineator for a test site. I'm sure if any other drive companies are interested in MV Lineators Mirus would be happy to talk to them.
As you said there are a number of applications suitable for AFE drive (or DC 4 quadrant drives) but at best that is less than 13% of the globla drives market. The biggest share (68%) is for centrifugal pump and fan applications. (Talking about these I dropped a boo-boo yesterday re harmonics and square law loads - I meant to say that the harmonic currents reduce approx with the cube of speed (not load).
The other thing with Lineator I notice is that it also acts as an EMI filter for the drive. Not as good as you get with dedicated EMC filters (which often cost almost as much as the drive) but makes a big difference on AM radio interference problems.
ICEMAN
P.S. How come nobody taken up my challange yet regarding DUPLEX REACTORS ? Do I assume nobody has heard of these ?
RE: Performance of Matrix Harmonic Filters - for the eyes of Drive Experts
No doubt that those filters are the simplest and affordable topologies but we have a right question about them: Performance of Matrix Harmonic Filters - for the eyes of Drive Experts
As a passive harmonic filters the “Lineator” and “Matrix” have a similar configuration called a “broad band filter” that provides a low impedance trap for the harmonics around the 5th and 7th (a major harmonic content of the Drive). The Lineator (Mirus) is that uses mutually coupled reactors while the Matrix (MTE) requires three discrete three-phase reactors using separate cores.
As a lower cost solution for harmonic mitigation in drives application they still have some weaknesses that occur during their testing:
1. Under no-load conditions, the filters appears capacitive to the power grid and can operate at a 0.95 leading power factor. This causes the line voltage to increase, causing the DC bus voltage of the drive to increase to about 105% of nominal. This should be within the over-voltage limit of the drive but high line voltage will decrease the headroom available before a trip occurs.
2. When operating on a generator back-up system, this leading power factor can also present a problem for the generator’s voltage regulator causing unstable operation.
3. When operating at full load, the DC bus voltage of the drive will decrease to about 96% of nominal. This limits the ability of the drive to provide full speed, full voltage at full load to the motor. Instead, the motor will be operating at a reduced magnetic field, with more slip, causing it to draw more current and run hotter. Rated RPM will not be achieved. Max RPM will be closer to 92% of rated. This can be critical for several pump applications.
4. We have found that the SCR firing control used on a converter of the drives when connected to a Lineator, does not operate as designed, and will experience over-voltages and trips. The Lineator is not recommended for use on these drives for this reason. Drives with a simple diode bridge converter do not experience these problems.
5. Mirus can only guarantee that the Lineator will reduce the line current THD to less than 8% under full load. Worst case conditions as stated in IEEE std 519-1992 requires less that 5% current distortion. It may be acceptable under some applications, but not all.
Thank you, NNG.
RE: Performance of Matrix Harmonic Filters - for the eyes of Drive Experts
1. In-line or series passive harmonic filters experience voltage drop. This can be compensated a "boost" transformer or autotransformer.
2. The SCR firing circuits have to be supply for a better quality power supply.
3. When it comes to LINEATOR operation with the generator, the mutual electrical coexistence will depend on the mutual sizes, e.g. 100HP LINEATOR will not affect 1MW generator significantly.
RE: Performance of Matrix Harmonic Filters - for the eyes of Drive Experts
1. I can agree that at no load the Lineator does represent a small ~3% voltage rise as seen from the drive. That is well within normal tolerance and diminshes with load. I am advised that the new Advanced Lineator does not have any volt rise at no or light load. Obviously, the Mirus guys took this on board.
2.What actual real (not just theorical) experience have you got with Lineator on generators. I do not know of any AVR or related problems due to leading cos phi due to Lineator. Do you know of any ?
3. The Lineator does not just 'trap' the 5th and 7th harmonics. To mu knowledge it attenuates all 6n+/-1 harmonics up to 35th. The Lineator is not a broadband filter as far as I know. If any of the Mirus engineers are reading this maybe you'd like to correct me.
4. Your comment re the voltage drop at full load may be correct (although I believe is not as much as you state) but that is the same magnitude of voltage drop you get with a 3% or 4% reactor which would provide 38-40% Ithd. So what's the problem here ? Are you going to recommend banning AC line reactors from all pump applications (or fans)? Any voltage drop even direct from the mains would result in a similar reduction in torque. You tell me of any product or solution which is perfect.
5. The original design of Lineator was designed for diode or SCR pre-charge front ends. However, some VFDs had strange SCR firing strategies (like the A-B 1336 series) which did not agree with Lineator. However, I am advised that the new Advanced Lineator DOES work with the 1336 Series and similar drives. It has also been tested with a fully controlled SCR bridge (quasi-square wave VFD) and I am told works great. DC drives are now about to be tested also. Go back and try your 'problematic' SCR pre-charge drive with Advanced Lineator - you'll see it works.
You must remember that Lineator is a relatively new and evolving product. Active filters have been around longer !
6. Mirus does only guarantees <8% Ithd (although they state 5-8% Ithd which is the normal range) but even 8% satisfies the majority of drive applications re TDD (read the small print). Afterall, the Vthd of 5% is the more important. From my side I have seen quite a number of installations where the Ithd is less than 5%. I have also seen lots of active filter installations which don't meet the advertised 5% Ithd level.
Anyway, it' been great getting all these comments from you guys re Lineator but how many of you have actually used it or tested it ?
I've give up on asking you guys about Duplex Reactors. I take it nobody has heard of them.
ICEMAN
RE: Performance of Matrix Harmonic Filters - for the eyes of Drive Experts
I have been thinking about your comments re supposed voltage drop of Lineator at full load, overheating motor, not getting to rated speed et al. Now I was a drives guys before I was more involved with harmonics and the norm I found was that the pump's (or fan's)absorbed power (Germans called it 'effective power') was usually around 85% of the installed motor power. So if you take all the inefficiences into account motor (~92% for larger one) and 95% (assuming the VFD matches the motor HP) for the VFD there is still more than sufficient margin there re current and thermal capacity to provide full load (of the pump, for example) at rated speed.
You not agree ?
ICEMAN
RE: Performance of Matrix Harmonic Filters - for the eyes of Drive Experts
Why you try to convince me that I am against Matrix and Lineator filters using for drive applications from my view point? I am the same as you as end-user of those products and make my own comments.
Those filters are a chip and simple product and should be used by engineers as they want.
But the customer should be aware about possible problems with their applications too. Not only talking here that New Lineator is the best product I’ve ever seen.
I’m not a designer for Matrix (MTE) or Lineator (Mirus) filters to tell you how they are built (topology). But in my opinion they are still classified as a broad band filter and not a trap filters. Ask MTE and Mirus about their filter configuration and you will see how this works.
I’m not banning AC line reactors from the drive application (with standard impedance 3% or 5%) but from our test we saw the total filter impedance was higher than 5%. The voltage drop on those filters also was presented.
The real environment when your incoming line is + or -10% of nominal (standard drive spec) and soft or stiff power source presented this has effect on a performance of the drive relative to motor.
Through the test we have seen the DC Bus Voltage was dropped to min limit under low incoming voltage line (>-5%) and soft power source and rated drive load.
I think that the both filters still have a capacitor bank in their topologies. So when your drive with those filters will be in stand-by mode the filter capacitor banks are still in circuitry and can absorb the other harmonics that flown in power system. From the test the cap bank current was increasing significant when the loads in system were changed.
The leading power factor also was tested.
Finally, we have to resume that we talking about both filters: Matrix and Lineator. Our mission to share our knowledge and not marketing here for only Lineator product, are you agree?
Thanks, NNG.
RE: Performance of Matrix Harmonic Filters - for the eyes of Drive Experts
2. The SCR firing circuits have to be supplied from a better quality power supply.
This is in the context of LINEATOR versus SCR input side converters AC-DC or AC-AC.
RE: Performance of Matrix Harmonic Filters - for the eyes of Drive Experts
http://www.sam-electronics.de/neue_dateien/epg/1.055.pdf
under paragraph "Harmonics"
Essentially, the duplex reactor consists of two reactors in each phase line, one on the input side of the synchronous compensator and one on the output side of the synchronous compensator.
RE: Performance of Matrix Harmonic Filters - for the eyes of Drive Experts
http://198.173.130.4/main/trench/trenchmain.nsf/AllDownLoadDocs/4AAE520D47A2222587256D24001E74EF/$FILE/CorpBrochureCanada.pdf
for a specific information on duplex reactors
RE: Performance of Matrix Harmonic Filters - for the eyes of Drive Experts
NNG...I agree that our brief is to share our knowledge and not market. Well surprising, from my perspective, that is what I have been doing. I know a lot about Lineator and surrounding issues and took the time to pass that information on via this debate. Maybe you see 'marketing' when I don't necessarily agree with your comments (maybe that's a wee bit strong). To my knowledge everything I have said to date is correct. However, we both have opinions and experiences - perhaps that is why we beg to differ. However, I do respect your opinion and believe you have made a very valueable contribution to this debate. It's only a pity that Mirus nor MTE have joined the debate to answer some of the questions/criticsims/concerned which have been expressed.
In any case nobody should be put off considering either of these products for the attentuation of harmonics on AC drives. However, in experince Lineator (as I have tried to explain in previous contributions) is the far better product.
ICEMAN
P.S. And if I were to choose between calling Lineator a trap filter or a broadband filter I would have to go for the latter. We can agree on that now.
RE: Performance of Matrix Harmonic Filters - for the eyes of Drive Experts
ICEMAN
RE: Performance of Matrix Harmonic Filters - for the eyes of Drive Experts
It can be useful if you start a new thread re duplex reactors.
Anyway, I've done a quick search on google and found a few websites regarding it. A good looking site - you have to translate it because it is written in German - is:
http://www.schild.net/duplexdrossel/1/
Ralph
RE: Performance of Matrix Harmonic Filters - for the eyes of Drive Experts
That paper is by Wolfgang Schild who was with Germanische Lloyd in Hamburg. He retired late last year. He was the main man as far as these were concerned.
Duplex reactors have a few drawbacks including the peformance being dependent on the number of generators on line. To date they seem to optimise on two generator scenario. Also, the Vthd on the load side of the reactors is higher than without them fitted (as you have with active filters due to the filter impedance being <1% {i.e. they permit higher harmonic currents to be drawn; ~ 10/15% on three phase and up to 50% on single phase}.
They haven't been used that to date much other than for a number of German research vessels and an cruise ship with ABB cycloconverter drives. They can't be used as far as I see on ships with IT networks (ungrounded neutral) due to the lack of galvanic isolation (to replace the drives EMC filters which cannot be used on IT systems {have to be grounded}. What is used usually are double wound phase shift transformers with copper screen between windings to attentuate the common mode noise for the drive. (Mirus use the TransLineator for this type of application; the transformer for galvanic isolation and Lineator for harmonic mitigation.)
Ralph, why don't you start this new thread on duplex reactor ? It might be a lonely furrow though !
ICE
RE: Performance of Matrix Harmonic Filters - for the eyes of Drive Experts
I have been sent a copy of an independent report on Lineator from a guy in Australia whose company has tested Lineators extensively. I would like to quote a couple of sections which very relevant to our discussions re generator operation, whether Lineator is a broadbank filter and on the voltage drop issue >>>>
1. "The maximum level of reactive power generated by Lineator is about 15% of its rating and therefore leading power factor will not be a problem in general applications.
Note the normal operation of generators is assured when at no load conditions, the level of leading reactive power factor does not exceed 25% of its rating. Even if a Lineator were to be connected to a generator of its own rating, operation would not be influenced."
2. "Note the Lineator is not a so called broadband filter. These filters contain significantly more capacitance than the Lineator, due to the need to compensate for the excessive voltage drop across the series reactance. The effects of power factor associated with broadband filters do not apply to the Lineator."
3. As regards the voltage drop at full load the report further states "With the Lineator in circuit the DC bus voltagis 7-8% higher than without it. With 415V input voltage, the maximum DC bus voltage level is approx. 620-630V, which is well below the overvoltage protection setting.
We have carried out measurements of the DC bus voltage of a standard 6 pulse PWM drive on this particular Lineator and the results are presented in Fig 2.
It is very important to note that the DC bus voltage ripple is significantly reduced with the Lineator. The slightly higher voltage level and reduced ripple level reduce the current drawn by the drive. The result is cooler operation and the drive and it's DC bus capacitors, hence increased reliability of the drive".
The above is word for word from the report. The above statements seem to substaniate my earlier comments re Lineator.
Can I ask if NNG has tested a Lineator or were the tests on generic broadband filters only ?
ICEMAN
RE: Performance of Matrix Harmonic Filters - for the eyes of Drive Experts
You are correct. Our tests were done on generic Passive Harmonic Filters including a Lineator.
All of those filters have the same components as L & C but their design arrangement was different.
The notes (1 & 2) from the test report in Australia have a valid information regarding a Lineator. But it may be not applicable for specific situations when I mentioned it in previous posts. Ask those guys how they measured a harmonic current on filter cap bank and input power factor when the tested drive with the filter was in stand-by mode and other loads (preferable a non-linear loads) were running in system at that time. We saw the filter cap bank was absorbing far more than 25% its rated current. It’s hard to repeat the same scenario if the test conditions were not the same in both cases.
Regarding note 3, something still looks strange to me: “…With 415V input voltage, the maximum DC bus voltage level is approx. 620-630V…”. Normally the Drive with a 6-pulse rectifier and without harmonic filter should be has 560Vdc (x1,35 conversion factor) at input voltage 415Vac. Also depending on power source the Drive DC Bus can drop more 10-30 Volts when the drive runs full rated amps. At their case they tested DC Bus at 620-630V level - 12.5% higher than normal DC Bus. I can see this phenomenon when the drive is not running but when it runs under rated load those results are hard to believe.
Thanks, NNG.
RE: Performance of Matrix Harmonic Filters - for the eyes of Drive Experts
I agree with your comments re the AC line x 1.35 but as there was a voltage boost with Lineator even at rated load. It may be that the theorical 415V +10/-6% came into play here. The graph clearly shows a drop in volts with Lineator from no load to full load against a similar graph of volts without Lineator suggesting that the mains was high in the first place. I'll revisit that report tomorrow and confirm that.
One of the problems with this report is maybe that it is dated 2000 so it was one of the early Lineators (90kW). They have continually developed since then and as far as I am led to believe there is no voltage boost on no/light load with the Advanced Lineator.
The report goes on to say that there are no problems running with multiple Lineators on one power system when on utility or generator derived supplies.
ICEMAN
RE: Performance of Matrix Harmonic Filters - for the eyes of Drive Experts
jbartos..Your link to the site re Duplex Reactors does not work. Can you check it please and ensure it is correct. If not give me more details on who makes it. Thx.
///Please, cut and paste the link into the browser URL or "File" "Open".
It is working. Normally, when you see links that are not blue, this is the last resort to get to the sites.\\\
RE: Performance of Matrix Harmonic Filters - for the eyes of Drive Experts
I downloaded that brochure in the link re duplex reactors. Unfortunately, two sentences do not tell you much ! Thanks anyway.
ICEMAN
RE: Performance of Matrix Harmonic Filters - for the eyes of Drive Experts
There is a schematic diagram. Often, many electrical engineers can take it from there with ease. Please, notice that this is Eng-Tips Forum. For detail instructions and education, there are various other and official educational institutions.
RE: Performance of Matrix Harmonic Filters - for the eyes of Drive Experts
We were lucky enough to have a Mirus rep come thru the office and do a presentation a few months back... an excerpt of my notes from the presentation.
Lineator:
"Simple line reactor with multiple windings on a common core" (I noted similar to a zig zag with the following differences) and third winding with capacitance.
L1 winding - high impedance (tuned below the 5th to prevent importation of upstream harmonics back towards drive) Wound with polarity marks toward line side of system
L2 winding - output winding (tuned near 7th to remove load side harmonics) wound with polarity towards the drive.
L3 winding - tapped between L1 & L2 with polarity towards L1 on same common core with cap bank connected. Cap bank nearly 6x smaller than MTE units.
The MTE/Danfoss units appeared to have 3 to four separate reactors acting as a low pass filter.
Test data that Mirus quoted by Toshiba included the following:
For a 150HP Motor
@100% Load: Fundamental
Speed: TCHD w/Mirus TCHD w/o
60Hz 5.8% 67.7%
45Hz 6.8% 74.3%
30Hz 8.5% 84.2%
15Hz 10.1% 101.9%
At varying Load:
60 Hz Speed
Load: w/mirus w/o
100% 5.8% 67.7%
75% 6.5% 73.2%
60% 8.7% 86.2%
25% 11.4% 108.7%
Based upon the smaller footprint of the units, the guarantees, the ability to handle the variable loads of our application and the price advantages over higher pulse drives we are planning on installing some of the mirus units later this year.... hopefully can repost positive results at that time.
RE: Performance of Matrix Harmonic Filters - for the eyes of Drive Experts
The other thing to mention is that the MTE unit only guarantees the published performance if the pre-existing Vthd is not more than 0% (even a generator on no load has more than this !).
Both the MTE and Danfoss (another Lineator based copy ?) have limits on both pre-existing Vthd and voltage imbalance regarding performance where the Mirus Linetor does not. Those points are pretty importance from the practical standpoint. I believe also the Danfoss AHF is dedicated to Danfoss drives. In any case I do not see any drives company rushing to give Danfoss business where the Mirus unit is suited to the majority of VFDs with diode or SCR pre-charge front ends.
Since the tests by Toshiba were performed that have seemingly standardised on Lineator as in this and other tests Lineator often performs active filters without the cost and complexity.
I have no axe to grind re active filters as I have been involved in them since 1996. It is best that the application criteria determine the type of mitigation not just what is considered 'sexy'. Performance, price and relability are things to go for in my eyes.
ICEMAN