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Twenty oh four

Twenty oh four

Twenty oh four

(OP)
Why do I hear (mostly on NPR) the year expressed as "twenty oh four"? How hard is it to say "two thousand four" or at least "twenty zero four" When did it become acceptable to substitute the letter "O" for the digit "0"? Is this part of innumeracy?

Best regards,

Matthew Ian Loew
"Luck is the residue of design."
Branch Rickey


Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

RE: Twenty oh four

It's part of NPR thinking that they are the final arbiters of the language.  You often hear "NPR-izations" of words and phrases that bleed over from one show to another.  

It all makes me think of Ellsworth M. Toohey orchestrating decay in the language in The Fountainhead--and Please lets not start another intermitable thread on the value of Ayn Rand (last time got just too acromonius).

David

RE: Twenty oh four

Good one, MLoew.

This one particularly bothers me because I'm a tad hard of hearing and it's sometimes hard for me to distinguish between the "Oh" sound and the "four" sound if someone's not enunciating clearly or it's noisy.

RE: Twenty oh four

Thats why I bought satellite radio, to escape NPR while travelling.  The respite has been wonderful.  Maybe that is why I was unfamiliar with the term that caused you to submit the question.

rmw

RE: Twenty oh four

You guys are lucky to have the NPR! We have something even worse; the Swedish Language Authority (Svenska Spraknamnden). It is a half-official organisation that looks after us Swedes and says what words we shall use and not use. The overall effect is - I think - good, but their thinking leads them astray all too often.

The Two-oh-four theme is one such case. Before 2k, no one had any trouble with this. We all used to say nineteenhundredeightyseven. Hard to read, but easy to hear.

But the Spraknamnden felt a need to be needed. So they started to think. Their thinking was something like this: It will be very awkward to pronounce twothousandonehundredeightyseven (2187) sometime in a distant future. Wouldnt it be easier to say twentyonehundredeightyseven instead? Five letters gained! Not bad.

And the Spraknamnden continued to think: "It will be tough for the future Swedes to switch from twothousandninetynine to twentyonehundred - will it not?" Yes, of course. "So, what shall we do about it?" Hmmm...

There was some discussion about this newly found and really important problem and the Spraknamnden solution was just as intelligent as the "problem definition"; We shall start using twentyhundred on January first year two thousand!

And so it is. National radio and TV is now using twentyhundredfour instead of twothousandfour - and most Swedish papers, too. And we Swedes are an obedient flock. Most of us do what the master says. Except some of us. So I have started the MM Academy. The only rule is: Thou shalt not write CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC (Roman for twenty-hundred) instead of MM (Roman for two thousand) and thou shalt say Two Thousand!

RE: Twenty oh four

As the millenium approach the TV jocks and jockesses were so fixated on this prpoblem of what to call the year 2000 and the years imediately following that they held a contest and, like all good reporters everywhere, interviewed each other. (I've lost count of the times i have shouted at my TV that i could care less what some lame brain reporter thinks, why don't they ask someones whose opinions matter like the guy with his finger on the button.)

Just for fun, and you know how TV loves a retrospective, they took a look at what terms where used in 1800 and 1900.

Some nice antiquated phrases were turned over and discussed meaninglessly.

Of course this all came to nought when the year turned over and people called it what they wanted to and finally we seem to have settled down in my part of the world to saying "two thousand and four".
TV, being TV will get it wrong till the end of time. (By the way, does TV count as an initialism or an acronym or both?)

JMW
www.viscoanalyser.com
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RE: Twenty oh four

Interesting thread, my brother and I had long discussions over what the first decade of the 21rst century would be called: The seventies, the nineties, the "     ".


We came up with the naughties... but it doesn't really flow.

On a second note, what exactly is NPR?

RE: Twenty oh four

Here's another vote for the naughties!

NPR is National Public Radio, the public, non-commercial radio network in the US.

RE: Twenty oh four

Beggar,

You forgot to include "taxpayer subsidized" in your description of NPR.

Enjoy,

rmw

RE: Twenty oh four

rmw- In case you didn't know a large part of the funding (>>50%) for NPR comes from member stations and corporate sponsors. The member stations in turn rely on listeners and their local sponsors for funding.

And another thing about NPR is that they actully do a news report with real reporters on location - infact those reporters generally are in that part of the world even if there isn't a huge disaster going on.

nick

RE: Twenty oh four

The "twenty-oh-four" version seems natural to me, especially once we get past, say, 2012.  After all, how do you say 1801, 1714, 1923, etc?

As far as what to call the decade, I've heard the "aughties" kicked around.  It makes sense when you think of the old-timers saying "Well, back in aught-6, we didn't have your fancy ..."

RE: Twenty oh four

Crossframe, are you asking how we should say those "years" today or as they would have been spoken at the time? There is quite a difference over the years and between countries as to how these were rendered.
I suspect there is quite a variation todaya between diferrent english speaking countries and even within countries.

JMW
www.viscoanalyser.com
eng-tips, by professional engineers for professional engineers
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

RE: Twenty oh four

(OP)
crossframe,

If "twenty-oh-four" is acceptable, why not say "two-oh-twelve" in your example of 2012. It is just as arbitrary and incorrect. My big problem is not with dividing up the 4 digit number into two double digit numbers, it is with the pronunciation of the zero digit as the letter "O". I don't think I am being pedantic here.

Best regards,

Matthew Ian Loew
"Luck is the residue of design."
Branch Rickey


Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

RE: Twenty oh four

rmw:

Doesn't the term "public" include taxpayer subsidization?

RE: Twenty oh four

Beggar,

Well, yes, it did, but I just wanted to 'hammer' the point home somewhat.

rmw

RE: Twenty oh four

For my two cents worth, the real value to me of the new millineum dating is in spanish.  Trying to roll "mil novocientos noventa y nueve" off the tongue is tedious, vs "dos mil quatro" for the current year.  I love it.  I don't guess I will be around when it becomes 'dos mil novo...'

rmw

RE: Twenty oh four

jmw & MLoew,

I agree with what both of you said.  I was just trying to say that what "we engineers" know to be correct (or more correct) sometimes matters little to the rest of the world.  (I feel the same was when people say they want to "pour some cement.")

My point was merely that despite being incorrect, "twenty-fourteen" is more consistent with the way we typically say the dates today.  The 2012 reference was a stab at when saying "twenty-twelve" would become easier or more commonplace than saying "two thousand-twelve."

RE: Twenty oh four

Back to MLeow's complaint about "twenty-oh-four". I'm sure part of the answer is that "oh" is a single syllable, that omitting altogether would leave "twenty-four" and that "and" would be equally misconstrued.
 
The "oh" for "zero" is much more common than just the current years: I frequently hear Highway "five-oh-one" [Hwy 501] on the daily traffic report.  And how many people say "zero" when giving phone numbers?  Now THAT could be confusing; on my phone, "oh" is the 6!

And I like the "naughties".

jlg

-removed the extra -'s after reading another thread.

RE: Twenty oh four

MLoew-

Maybe NPR is just trying to attract a younger crowd.  By eliminating any old sayings (like aught-four, etc.) they can draw more gen X'ers like myself.  Twenty-oh-four is just the new wave way of saying things, and its something that old timers just don't get.

ps - That old Edwards dude just HAD to go....he was over 40 years old wasn't he?

Brian ;)

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