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Hyphen Vs Comma
2

Hyphen Vs Comma

Hyphen Vs Comma

(OP)
Something I've noticed recently is that  I tend to use the hypen to break up sentences where a comma doesn't seem to provide the right pause. For example a recent post on a trike forum had this;

Abid - sorry, didn't get a chance to catch up with the guys who have
designed the new Aerotwin engine. They were away at the time.


Thoughts??

RE: Hyphen Vs Comma

In another thread on this forum, it was pointed out that you actually want to use a double hyphen = dash for this purpose.  Hyphen is reserved for other things such as hyphenated words.

I believe it has more to do with style than rules as long as you stay within the elastic limit when bending them.

Jesus is THE life,
Leonard

RE: Hyphen Vs Comma

(OP)
http://www.cs.sfu.ca/~ggbaker/reference/characters/#dash

The above link is interesting in this regard. It appears the = sign is a replacement for the double dash -- which may not always be included in the keyboard function.

Another interesting article on the subject;
http://www.grammartips.homestead.com/dash.html

It also appears, from what I've read on the subject, that correct use of hyphens and dashes should not include spaces either side of the character. This begs the question, what is it that I typed in the example? Technically it appears to be incorrect.

More on the double hyphen at
http://www.bartleby.com/68/0/2000.html

Cheers
Kerry

RE: Hyphen Vs Comma

This discussion of the correct use of the hyphen, the dash and the double dash is interesting, but largely academic to me. I have to admit that I never actually knew that there were three different typographical symbols, each with its own rules. (What about the minus sign - is that yet another typographic symbol?)

My computer keyboard only has a single key to choose from. I have always called it the hyphen key (or the minus key, when entering numeric data), but maybe it's really the dash key?

When typing into a generic ASCII field (like here), it alway appears as a single length dash / hyphen.

When using a word-processor (e.g. MS-Word), it sometimes extends itself to a double-length dash. I always thought this was just another symptom of MS-Word's arrogance in presuming to know what format and style I want in my documents. By and large, I am happy enough to live with what Word throws at me, but sometimes, it is quite infuriating when I know exactly how I want something to appear, but there seems to be absolutely no way that I can get Word to accept my formatting preferences.

Now that I check with Fowler's, I see that the hyphen (used to split long words across lines in type-setting, for example), should actually be half the length of the shorter dash (formally known as the en-rule) , which is used to separate double-barrelled names and numbers (e.g. pages 34-36, Cholmondeley-Featherstonehaugh, etc). The longer dash (formally known as the em-rule) should be twice as long again as the en-rule, and is used to separate clauses and phrases in a sentence, such as to introduce an explanatory "interjection" of what comes before. (e.g. I was awoken suddenly when John - he's my neighbour - came barging in through the door.)

I have never really worried about the length of my hyphen, but having pulled a few people over the coals over minor transgressions in this forum (always in a light-hearted fashion, I hasten to say!), I guess I will have to watch it a lot more closely from now on!

RE: Hyphen Vs Comma

JulianHardy, I'd guess you already know that you can turn off Word's auto-replacement of the hyphen with the dash.

If this is news to you, go to Tools-AutoCorrect-AutoFormat and clear the "Symbol characters to symbols" box. You can then use Ctrl_Alt_Num - to make the em dash and Ctrl_Num - to make the en dash.

RE: Hyphen Vs Comma

Julian
re: Word's arrogance.
I feel your pain!!!!!

=====================================
Eng-tips forums: The best place on the web for engineering discussions.

RE: Hyphen Vs Comma

Perhaps an ellipsis would have been better in the cited example?

Abid... Sorry, didn't get a chance to catch up with the guys who have designed the new Aerotwin engine. They were away at the time.

http://ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/marks/ellipsis.htm

Ray Reynolds
"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
Ken Olson, president, chairman and founder of Digital Equipment Corp., 1977
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RE: Hyphen Vs Comma


At the risk of scorn and wrath, on a computer keyboard sometimes ‘Alt-0151’ makes an emdash and ‘Alt-0150’ makes an endash.  
   

RE: Hyphen Vs Comma

With the exception of using hyphens to separate identical letters as in book-keeping, trans-shipment, pre-eminent, etc., I thought, in principle, hyphens are meant to join words, while commas are applied to separate or break-up long sentences. English-speakers: come to rescue! Thanks.

RE: Hyphen Vs Comma

busbar,

Thanks for the tip.

But seriously - are we expected to remember these Alt-codes? In my DOS days, I became pretty adept at knowing how to type a "degree" symbol and several other typographical symbols, by using Alt-codes. Nowadays, if it isn't on my keyboard, or in one of the Character Map font sets, I just don't use it.

I know my computer has an almost infinite capability to produce special typographical symbols when required, but I for one have become accustomed to the standard PC-AT keyboard as providing my complete typographic symbol set.

I know also that there is a substantial library of special symbols which I can use in Windows documents, using the Character Map and various type faces (e.g. smiley faces, "thumbs up" symbols, etc in WinDings, WebDings, etc), but I use these very sparingly, and only in printed documents, because I suspect that if the recipient of my electronic message doesn't have the right font installed, they will see a blank space or a little rectangle, instead of my intended light-hearted witticism. This can be a severe impediment to effective communication!

I suspect the distinction between the em-rule, the en-rule, the dash, and the hyphen, are destined to disappear from every-day written communications - if they ever actually made it that far!

RE: Hyphen Vs Comma


Julian, I spent almost a decade on WordStar for DOS for (mostly electrical) reports and memos.

Bottom line, I guess, is what does the task with the least messing around is best for each of us.  Everyone has their own adaptations of what are personal convenience and flexibility.  [Odd characters don’t always translate well online.  For this message board, though, there is www.tipmaster.com/includes/charentities.cfm ]
  

RE: Hyphen Vs Comma

Ever wondered why calibres in mm are not hyphenated, as in 50mm or 105mm, while 5.5-inch and 25-pounder are ?

RE: Hyphen Vs Comma

25362,

Because those who create rules for the SI say so.  According to NIST SP 811 Guide for the Use of the International System of Units, "There is a space between the numerical value and the unit symbol, even when the value is used in an adjectival sense...".  Also, "If the spelled-out name of a unit is used, the normal rules of English are applied: 'a roll of 35-millimeter film.'"

Cheers.

Cory

RE: Hyphen Vs Comma

Corypad,
Ah, then it's 50 mm and 105 mm not 50mm and 105mm?

Just checking.

jlg

RE: Hyphen Vs Comma

jlg,

Yes, use 50 mm not 50mm.

Regards,

Cory

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RE: Hyphen Vs Comma

Back to the original question.  I often feel that people should be using a semi-colon in places where they have used a dash.  If you look at novels written in Victorian times, you can find liberal use of the semi-colon in places where many modern writers would use a dash.

Bung
Life is non-linear...

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