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Isn't it ironic?
2

Isn't it ironic?

Isn't it ironic?

(OP)
... That an otherwise excellent songwriter like Alanis Morissette should write a hit song called "Isn't it ironic?" without understanding the meaning of the words she writes.

E.g. "It's like rain on your wedding day" "It's a black fly in your chardonnay" etc

Sorry, Alanis, it's bad luck, but it's not ironic. Irony requires more than just an unfortunate set of circumstances - the core of irony is that there must be a poignant incongruity between what is planned and can reasonably be expected to happen, and what actually happens.

"Isn't it ironic - don't you think?"

RE: Isn't it ironic?

I always thought it was deliberate that a song title "Ironic" would be filled with situations that weren't really ironic....making the title ironic eh?

Let's give the poor girl a break, since when did we hold song writers up to any form of grammatical correctness dawg?

RE: Isn't it ironic?

If you want a great explaination of ironic read George Carlins "Brain droppings". besides "ironic" he tackles the english language and the ways in which we abuse it quite humorously.

RE: Isn't it ironic?

Actually long standing tradition was that if it rained on your wedding day you would have a long happy marriage.  It was always considered a sign of good luck; which explains why it felt like the Sahara on my wedding day in September but I digress.

Besides under the correct circumstances any of the above could be an ironic situation.  For example you have a lovely evening set out for your significant other.  You are using the wine to cap off an otherwise perfect evening.  Laughing gaily you toast, drink and start choking on the fly that landed in your wine when you were not looking.

This would definitely fulfill the following definition of irony (from Merriam-Webster online)
3 a (1) : incongruity between the actual result of a sequence of events and the normal or expected result

Just because she didn't want to take time to explain the whole situation for every line doesn't mean it cannot be an ironic situation.

RE: Isn't it ironic?

CanEngJohn;
Isn't it ironic that if it rains on your wedding day it would mean tears not happiness. Oh well, it snowed on my wedding day - and I am still married 26 years later.... isn't it ironic?

RE: Isn't it ironic?

metengr said" Oh well, it snowed on my wedding day - and I am still married 26 years later.... isn't it ironic?"

Um, no. That is not irony. Unless you were being meta-ironic in the context of this thread.

Cheers

Greg Locock

RE: Isn't it ironic?

(OP)
CanEngJohn,

Indeed, all of the events outlined in the song COULD be ironic IF certain other circumstances take place, but we are not informed about them.

A fly in your wine is unfortunate, but not ironic.

You are having a perfect evening with your partner, and a fly lands in your wine - still bad luck, but not yet ironic.

You decide to pop "the question", she accepts, you order a bottle of the house's best French Champagne (or chardonnay, if that's your preference), and you both drink to future happiness, she chokes on the fly that lands in her glass, and she calls the whole thing off. That's ironic!

On the evidence presented in the song, everything seems to me to be bad luck - but not ironic.

RE: Isn't it ironic?

I once heard a TV comedian comment on the Alanis Morissette song saying that "It's like being stuck in traffic when you're already late." is not irony. "It's like being stuck in traffic when you're already late for a local government meeting to discuss a proposed road improvement scheme." is irony.

M

--
Dr Michael F Platten

RE: Isn't it ironic?


Would “an ashtray on a motorcycle” be ironic, or meta-ironic?
  

RE: Isn't it ironic?

I would say that would be useless, not ironic.

Much like a screen door on a submarine to keep the flies out, or a kick stand on a skateboard.

Ray Reynolds
"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
Ken Olson, president, chairman and founder of Digital Equipment Corp., 1977
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: Isn't it ironic?

I heard a comedian tell a tale of how he took the p*ss out of the song Ironic in a stand up routine.
A lady in the audience, obviously upset by this, heckled him, shouting "It's a METAPHORE!!!"

He stopped, and replied, "No it isn't: it's a similie."

He said it was the first time in his life he'd been grateful for english lessons.

"I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go past." Douglas Adams

RE: Isn't it ironic?

In Europe we say 'ferric' rather than 'ironic'.

RE: Isn't it ironic?

Would this be bad luck or ironic- losing a GPS?

RE: Isn't it ironic?

Neither, that would be irresponsible.

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

RE: Isn't it ironic?

If a ferrous device designed to hand-press wrinkles out of fabrics were found in testing to actually make new wrinkles of its own when used, might it be called an ironic iron iron?

Dang, I'm bored...

RE: Isn't it ironic?

Actually the lost GPS line was from a memberpost in a pub-I thought it was kind of funny- I guess one of my experiences would be better- a salesman was attempting to sell my boss and I a spray which was supposed to inhibit rust- when he took the plastic cap off the spray bomb the top of the can was rusty!

RE: Isn't it ironic?

==> sell my boss and I
???

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

RE: Isn't it ironic?

Might as well sell the boss.  She/He certainly was not about to sell any spray that day.  Was it ironic that Iron Oxide was the part of the irony?

RE: Isn't it ironic?

Is this ironic or just sick humor?

Disease conference leaves folks ailing
Around 30 people attended a conference on infectious diseases at the University of Oslo two weeks ago, and ended up getting infected themselves.
http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article982700.ece

RE: Isn't it ironic?

(OP)
rnd2

"sick humor" - what an awful (excellent!) pun!

RE: Isn't it ironic?

You mean a sense of tumour helps?

RE: Isn't it ironic?

As long as its benign.

RE: Isn't it ironic?

I don't mind if its benign, as long as it doesn't spread.

RE: Isn't it ironic?

looks like we have an epidemic of sick humor

RE: Isn't it ironic?

Thanks to all the punners; I haven't groaned this much since the last time I read a Spider Robinson novel.

RE: Isn't it ironic?

Since it is on the internet, should it be e-pidemic?

RE: Isn't it ironic?

opps is mispelled humour

RE: Isn't it ironic?

wouldn't it be ironic if JulianHardy's boss happened by just as he was adding to this thread....  I bet that would rain on their parade

Keep the wheels on the ground
Bob

RE: Isn't it ironic?

Err, Bob, more likely post-phobic depression.

RE: Isn't it ironic?

I suppose that to try to resurrect this thread would be to beat a dead horse.  I feel somewhat like a cat in an adage.

Although the term irony is used to refer to incongruous circumstances (black fly in white wine), isn't it also used in a dramatic sense to indicate an unwittingly prophetic utterance?  So a fly in the wine may be auspicious of some ill yet to be, especially if someone says, "Look at the fly in the wine.  That means bad luck, ha, ha", and then chokes on it.

Does anyone remember the scene in "Airplane", where the radio announcer says, "WXYZ Chicago, where Disco lives forever!", at which point the plane takes out the antenna?  That is ironic in both senses.

Will-I-Am

RE: Isn't it ironic?

"............beat a dead horse............."

Is this irony?

RE: Isn't it ironic?


Ironic expressions include the following situations, taken from a reverse dictionary:

In tone, humorosly: tongue-in-cheek
Joking in an inappropriate way: facetious
Using a word in a different sense from its usual one: antiphrasis
Bitingly or with cruelty: sarcastic, caustic, mordant
Mocking or disdainful: sardonic
Drily humorous: wry

RE: Isn't it ironic?

Ok;  This could be ironic.

Here, presumably in the language that engineers use to communicate, is one of the eng-tips rules governing Profiles:

"No signature should include any reference to voting, stars, or marking posts as helpful. Doing so is cause for membership termination."

How ironic, to be 'terminated' for terminal inchoacity (this is a word?) in rulemaking?

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