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Are you an alumni?

Are you an alumni?

Are you an alumni?

(OP)
As I was driving to work this morning, I saw one of those "Univ of xxx Alumni" license plate frames.

They bug me because they presumably refer to the owner of the car, who is probably an alumnus of said university.

It probably bothers me mostly because I hear people say, "I'm a xxx alumni" or "I'm an alumni of xxx" when, of course, they should be using the singular form, alumnus, rather than the plural.

Just my issue...

RE: Are you an alumni?

You're not alone...

xnuke

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RE: Are you an alumni?

Me alumnus too. jimbo

Buy a dictionary, keep it nearby and USE it. Webster's New World Dictionary of American English is recommended, and Webster's Collegiate Dictionary.

RE: Are you an alumni?

Hmm... would you have the same complaint about a bumper sticker that said "Local High School Football Team," if the vehicle wasn't carrying the whole team?

I always thought that those license plate frames indicated financial support of the alumni association of a particular university...

RE: Are you an alumni?

Isn't it similar to "die" and "dice"?

RE: Are you an alumni?

And:

datum / data

medium / media

In both cases, strictly speaking, one should use the "-um" form for the singular, and the "-a" form for the plural. However, both have effectively passed into common usage as singular collective nouns, and are even used as singular nouns on occasion. (I am not saying this is "right", but it has become so commonplace as to be almost standard nowadays. I will admit that I am "guilty" of adopting the modern common practice.)

For example, when referring to the news journalism industry, it is common to see "The Media is to blame for ...", whereas it should read "The Media are ..."

Other examples:

"This data point shows us that ..." Technically, you can't have a single data point, only a single datum, but common usage permits this.

"Select your preferred media for printed output." If you are only going to print the document once, you can only print it on a single medium. "Media" suggests that you will print it at least twice, on at least two different types of paper.

RE: Are you an alumni?

My pet peeves are criterion/criteria and phenomenon/phenomena, although I fear that these are rapidly becoming "lost causes". I've heard "this criteria" spoken by everyone from prominent news anchors to presidents - and I don't just mean Dubya. It's mainly because nobody studies Latin or Greek any more. Actually "data" has had a bit of a reprieve in recent years - you quite often see "these data" in research reports. And funnily enough, I'm not sure that I like it !

RE: Are you an alumni?

Funnily? I had to go to onelook.com to check that one out.  ("check out that one" to avoid preposition at the end?)

You're lucky EM, I'll get you next time

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RE: Are you an alumni?

electricpete,

Yes, use "check out that one".

Regards,

Cory

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RE: Are you an alumni?

electricpete: Whilst being somewhat dismayed that you are out to "get me", I will add fuel to the fire by stating that the contention that "you cannot end a sentence with a preposition" is a superstition, at least according to Fowler, who gives many examples of great writers who have done so with abandon. I was once upbraided by an office secretary who complained that I had written a sentence which concluded with the phrase that (so and so) "would not have anything to adjust to". I never could think of a better way of expressing it, at least not without introducing needless circumlocution. She was not to be persuaded by the entry in Fowler's "Modern English Usage", so I don't suppose you will be either.

RE: Are you an alumni?

It is said "You should never end a sentence with a preposition, such as with".

Winston Churchill once famously avoided the construction by finishing a speech with "..... up with which I will not put"

Good Luck
johnwm

RE: Are you an alumni?

johnwm: Actually, a the very end of his article on "preposition at end", Fowler cites that very phrase : "Not even Dryden could have altered which I will not put up with  to up with which I will not put". (Dryden had a somewhat misguided obsession about this so called rule). Since Churchill was of course a great wordsmith and stylist, he would probably have consulted Fowler on occasion, and I therefore have a strong suspicion that Fowler was his source.

RE: Are you an alumni?

johnwm,

The Winston Churchill episode that you mention was not originally in a speech (although it may have been repeated as such later). It was actually a marginal note that he wrote on a paper which a subordinate had written for him.  

Remember that Churchill was a great champion of correct usage of the English language, and he was also a great believer in using "plain English" to express oneself even when dealing with complex issues. He is also remembered for his great wit, so it is widely believed that his note was meant to be read as dripping with irony. That is, he noted an instance of ending a sentence with a preposition which could easily have been rectified in the particular instance. However, rather than just marking the obvious correction, he chose to use an ironic construction to demonstrate that the pedantic following of "rules" can on occasion lead to constructions that are far more cumbersome than the technically incorrect version.

RE: Are you an alumni?

I agree sometimes we just go with what sounds right.

"I'm going to check out it."
   doesn't quite have the same rings as
"I'm going to check it out."

"upbraid" checks out as well.  Actually EM you know me well enough to know I'm just kidding about being out to get you, but your posts provide a multitude of words for me to look up.  That's a good thing I guess.

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RE: Are you an alumni?

It's a matter of comfortableness.

You'd say "check it out," but you'd probably say "check out the new restaurant."

TTFN

RE: Are you an alumni?

I find it interesting that the name of one of the great statesmen of recent - or perhaps not so recent - history should appear in this thread. I think Churchill's command of the written and spoken word was of an unusually high standard, and any linguistic tricks he turned were entirely intentional.

Who could forget the superbly-crafted speech he delivered during the Second World War in 1940? I've posted the most memorable part below:

"...We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in France; we shall fight on the seas and oceans; we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air; we shall defend our Islands, whatever the cost may be; we shall fight on the beaches; we shall fight on the landing grounds; we shall fight in the fields, and in the streets; we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender..."

Magic stuff, made so much more memorable by the defiance in his voice as he delivered it to a nation on the brink of defeat. Dubya and Phoney Tony will forever live in his shadow.

-----------------------------------

Start each new day with a smile.

Get it over with.

RE: Are you an alumni?

A man was auditing a class at a fomous university and asked the professor, "where is the mens'-room at."  The professor replied, "at xxx we do not end sentences with a preposition."  "OK" said the student, "where is the mens'-room at knothead."  Actually the student used a more colorful word in place of knothead.

Jesus is THE life,
Leonard

RE: Are you an alumni?

ScottyUK: But it is ironic that many of Churchill's speeches, as heard on radio by the great bulk of the British Empire and US populations, appear to have been delivered by the actor Norman Shelley, doing what we would now call a "celebrity voice impersonation".
http://www.fpp.co.uk/bookchapters/WSC/Observer291000.html
This is something that few modern politicians would permit, although these same characters have no compunction about letting others write  their speeches, something Churchill would never have countenanced.

RE: Are you an alumni?

EnglishMuffin,

That is a fascinating story, but I think it is only fair to point out that the link is on David Irving's site. It should be noted that David Irving is a controversial historian (to put it mildly). For example, he has been widely discredited as being a holocaust revisionist.

Of course, that does not mean that everything he says is wrong (or right, for that matter), but I would need to see this story reported independently by a less controversial source before I could accept it as fact. Intriguing, and just faintly plausible, nevertheless.

RE: Are you an alumni?

That someone else often spoke Churchills speeches for him is something i have always "known" and not from David Irving. I think my Grandfather told me this originally (he was in Naval Intelligence (apparantly never an oxymoron. More interesting is the use of visual "doubles". We all know Sadam had/has one (where is he now, by the way? does he have a Holiday Inn in Topeka yet?)as did his sons and as have had many others in history.

Full marks to EnglishMuffin for his comment on the curious inversion of speech writing and delivery but what would anyone make of it if Phoney Tony or Dubya routinely used doubles?

Footnote: Part of the deception of the Germans leading to the Normandy invasion was the use of a double for Montgomery (Clifton James? Clifton someone). Some tricky stuff including false fuel pipeline laying in North Africa.

I guess we are straying seriously now but why is the phrase "All's fair in love and war" but not "politics and war"? Interesting.

JMW
www.viscoanalyser.com

RE: Are you an alumni?

JulianHardy: Well, I was being just a little tongue in cheek! You are correct in saying that the issue of whether or not Churchill used a stand-in for his radio broadcasts is highly controversial. After all, we are dealing with the stuff of legend here, and the real truth will probably never be known. Britain is, after all, a very secretive country in comparison with the USA - it is worth noting that Churchill suffered a debilitating stroke in the fifties during his second stint as Prime Minister, and the public was kept completely in the dark for several months by the use of various subterfuges, which would be completely unacceptable today even in Britain.
As usual, I have succeeded in leading this thread disasterously off-track. But there is one more comment that might be made about that classic speech of Churchill's. It was not quite as original as you might think. Compare it with this earlier version delivered on-air by the infamous Neville Chamberlain in 1940:

"We are a solid and united nation which would rather go down to ruin than admit the domination of the Nazis ... If the enemy does try to invade this country we will fight him in the air and on the sea; we will fight him on the beaches with every weapon we have. He may manage here and there to make a breakthrough: if he does we will fight him on every road, in every village, and in every house, until he or we are utterly destroyed."

So it appears that Churchill created his speech in very much the same manner that he wrote many of his books, which was to take what others had first roughed out and then rephrase, polish, and relentlessly prune all the prolixities and circumlocutions. People who helped him write his "History of the Second World War" were amazed at his ability to condense five pages into one. Perhaps it was his training as a journalist that enabled him to do this. None of his school teachers ever thought he would amount to anything, but interestingly enough, the same can be said of Hitler.

RE: Are you an alumni?

I think the word prolixities has been misused. I don't think the word exists.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=prolixity

n : boring verboseness

I think it's a noun which cannot have a plural.  Would we say verbosenesses?

Sorry, didn't mean to interrupt the Churchill dialogue. It is interesting.

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RE: Are you an alumni?

electricpete: You are no doubt salivating in anticipation ; you have finally "got me". However, I can offer no greater authority for the existence of the word "prolixities" than the opening sentence of Fowler's preface to the first edition of his "Modern English Usage" :
"I think of it as it should have been, with its prolixities docked, its dullnesses enlivened, its fads eliminated, its truths multiplied". So if you are going to take issue with me on this, you must also take issue with Fowler, who in his albeit much smaller world was as legendary as Churchill!

RE: Are you an alumni?

Going back to the original question,

Quote:

"Are you an Alumni?"
I think the answer could be yes -- if you have multiple personalities.  Although I must admit, some of me do not agree.

RE: Are you an alumni?

Drats, foiled again by Fowler.  On with the levities...

=====================================
Eng-tips forums: The best place on the web for engineering discussions.

RE: Are you an alumni?

By coincidence, I am reading my first Churchill book entitled "The Gathering Storm", which encompasses the period from the end of WWI thru WWII.

In US lingo "It is a good read". jimbo

Buy a dictionary, keep it nearby and USE it. Webster's New World Dictionary of American English is recommended, and Webster's Collegiate Dictionary.

RE: Are you an alumni?

Yes, that is of course the first volume of the six part set "The Second World War" which I alluded to earlier. I grew up in a small village in Sussex, which is in the south of England. And in that village there was an old gardener who had worked for Churchill on his fabled Chartwell estate in the neighboring county of Kent. One of Churchill's hobbies was bricklaying, of all things, and this guy had helped him with it. According to this character, Churchill was an absolute S.O.B. to work for. But then, it has often been said that Hitler could only have been defeated by someone who was an even bigger S.O.B. than he was himself ! This stuff is much more interesting than engineering, don't you think ?

RE: Are you an alumni?

I always thought that being an alumnus meant you went to school and got yourself some of that book learning.

Guess it didn’t take.



Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion
www.kitsonengineering.com

RE: Are you an alumni?

You can lead a horse to water...

TTFN

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