Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
(OP)
I have worked a few places and a common theme was evident. There are quite a few engineers who can't spell.
It surprised me that a group that is so intelligent had trouble spelling simple words.
I spent alot of time reading literature throughout high school and am an avid reader. This is what I attribute my spelling abilities too.
I was wondering if you have noticed this as well in your daily travels.
It surprised me that a group that is so intelligent had trouble spelling simple words.
I spent alot of time reading literature throughout high school and am an avid reader. This is what I attribute my spelling abilities too.
I was wondering if you have noticed this as well in your daily travels.





RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
So, you got the spelling down. Now try working on grammar and usage a bit!
It is interesting that so many otherwise intelligent people are stymied by spelling. I wonder if any studies have been done on this. Speling errors do take one's credibility down a notch.
Of all of my high school teachers, it was my physics teacher, not any of my Englsh teachers, that really did the most to show the importance of good writing skills. Her point was that in our (her students) futures, the first and most important impression many others will get from us is by something we wrote, be it a report, resume article, etc.
http://www.EsoxRepublic.com
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
In what language do these engineers express themselves? Do they not often express themselves via the written word, through the language of mathematics? Do they not also, quite rigorously I expect, check their spelling in these mathematical exhortations? Why would attention to detail in spelling in the natural language be any different than in the language of mathematics?
Now if I could only type.
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
upgradation as a case in point
TTFN
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
I knew I was going to be a metallurgist from the 3rd grade on....
nick
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
When I was in grade school spelling was taught via negative reinforcement. We were required to write something. Any words that were spelled incorrectly we had to write fifty or more times "until the correct spelling was ingrained".
This effectively served as punishment for misspelling. I for one, greatly resented this methodology at the time.
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
I would guess that the perceived differences in natural language and the language of mathematics, among engineers, is the big money question. I agree with your rebuttal, however, it does not explain why this occurs in most professions. Each professional that you come across will have an esoteric language as accepted by their relative discipline. As a result, as stated by EngineerDave, it is not uncommon to see another medium of communication suffer as a result. Doctors with poor penmanship, lawyers who write without any punctuation, actuaries......well, you hopefully get my point. Case in point: I was so concerned with trying to spell everything correctly that I allowed my ability to read a clock suffer. Back to work I go!
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
the following week, the professor enter the classroom extremely upset (quite p---ed) and proceed to explain that there is no excuse for submitting reports with mis-spelled words, even with spell-checker capabilities (1989?). the offending individual's paper had 11 mis-spelled words in the abstract portion of his report.
in talking w/ other students, we concurred w/ professor and wanted to know whom was the offending individual. turns out the individual did not have a good grasp of the english language (foreign born student). we thought a "good lesson to learn from".
well, that same individual submited his next two reports with mis-spelled words throughout. yes, we all heard about it again.
the worse part about this situation is that the individual was passed and eventually graduated.
i'm not saying withhold or do not pass in individual for not spelling, but it certainly should be indicated in his/her grades; thus income generating capabilities.
without a doubt, the primary problem with corporations/individuals these days is the lack of or failure to properly communicate in a manner/form understood by all.
having now been involved with gov work, using acronyms occurs daily with high frequency. to me, using acronyms is a sign of laziness and to a certain extent, some individuals feel more knowledgeable by knowing acronyms that others do not. of course, this is an example of communication breakdown.
w/out a doubt, acronyms, if used, should be used in an communication environment known and understood by all.
my 2 cents worth.
-pmover
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
I find I usually never have the time to document the results of my investigations or actions but yet, I must somehow find the time to put them to paper. Since I am a four finger typist and lack any keyboarding or typing courses over my educational experiences I am usually flummoxed when speed is a requirement. This is quite often complicated when I have spent some time perusing documents written prior to 1900. The language found within these documents quite often leaves a lasting affect which takes a couple of hours (or one Word document) to be rid of.
The resulting works are endlessly plagued by typos and spelling errors which I do not have the time to rectify.
I would argue that I am not the only individual who encounters such influences whilst pursuing our daily activities. We quite often have to deal with lawyers' ramblings, management's catch-phrase concepts and technical tradesmen's jargon within short periods. I bet we spend half our days wondering what language will challenge our cognitive adaptivity next.
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
Quis custodiet custodes?
Good Luck
johnwm
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
"Now, if only i could type" seems to express your sentiment better than:
"Now if i could only type" which implies that typing would be your only attribute!
I share that sentiment more than i wish to be better at spelling or grammer. For me the speed of communication is more important than the accuracy of the words or the grammar.
We think faster than we speak (great invention, language but poorly thought out. If we designed language rather than evolving it one of the priorities for me would be a langaugae that flows as fast as thought; a sort of Pitmans Oral) and we speak faster than we (or I) can type.
How natural is language? It seesm that Children have inate language skills and a natural grammar. Education then imposes an evolved structure over the top. If educators are going to do this then it would be nice to design asuitable language. Maybe we have physiological limit imposed by the length of sound we can hear.
Spoken language is only part of the comunications act. In face to face exchanges we depend a lot on body language, more so than on the words. If we write then this is a quite different medium as it is bereft of the emotions we normally express by body language. That's chore enough for me without adding correct spelling.
Look at it, I have my thought and my mind has moved on yet another part of my mind is dragging me back when speaking and more so when writing and now, to cap it all, i have to worry about spelling.
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
My use of the phrase "natural language" was not to imply a natural language in the sense you've provided with children (whatever that may be), but rather to encompass the framework of whatever language (English, French, German, etc) that you choose as your communications vehicle, and whether or not you choose to adhere to that framework as you would with mathematical language.
Given the length of sound (and volume) of the music that my children listen to, I concur that it stretches some physiological limits, but that's a different thread.
I do agree that body language and tone have tremendous impact on our interpretation of the spoken word, but I do not agree that written language is bereft of the emotions normally expressed by body language. I'm sure that all of us have read poetry and prose chock full of emotion.
You do bring up some other interesting points that require further thought.
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
[B}Poor spellers untie[/b]
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
I am assuming that you were trying to drive this point home intentionally....
Good thread folks
ietech
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
What this has resulted in is quite a few engineers who "spell it like you say it" without bothering to follow the inane language rules. There is no doubt that the reliance on spelling checkers has exaserbated the problem.
Brian
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
We intend to improve it.
Buy a dictionary, keep it nearby and USE it. Webster's New World Dictionary of American English is recommended, and Webster's Collegiate Dictionary.
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
At the risk of offending some, I think the problem varies from individual to individual. Among the reasons are the following:
It’s too menial for me to worry about.
I don’t have time to spell correctly.
It’s not that important.
It’s the thought that counts.
Who cares?
I wonder if the root of the problem (at least for those agree there is a problem) is simply apathy.
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
Conclusion: People are no longer concerned with how they are interpreted by others?
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
I don’t have time to spell correctly.
It’s not that important.
It’s the thought that counts.
Who cares?
Sound like my son, a junior in Computer Engineering. One day he will learn that spelling and grammar are important, I pray it's before it's too late.
My previous post just goes to show the importance of proof reading and previewing one's posts.
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
In my position I read many engineering reports. The poorly written reports give me brain hiccups. When I read a word which is misspelled or grammer which is completely butchered I have no choice but to think that the author could care less. It further makes me wonder about the way in which the actual work was done.
A report which is written clearly and concisely and not open to interpretation gives the author credibility. I find that the engineers that write well written reports also tend to show the same level of detail in their work. It also makes my job much easier!
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
For e-mails and forum postings, it is more common to make errors. I believe many are typos due to quickly typing. I'm a pretty darn quick typer, but I make my share of errors.
Have you noticed how informal many e-mails are?
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
My pet peeve in email communications is when people stop using capitalization, punctuation and grammar. I'm not the world’s fastest typist, but I don't find the SHIFT key that tricky to incorporate into my typing.
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
For example, i frequently write i when i mean I. In word, "i" auto corrects to "I".
If i type "tpye" aautocorrect is likely to make this "type". Cute, but a bad thing.
Spell checker and grammar checker, on the other hand, clutter the page with red and green squiggly underline and you just have to deal with it. These encourage me to improve in these areas.
I guess, if I get time, I should review every setting in word and make some decisions about which settings are good and which are bad.
Come to think on it, how many of you are self taught typists? In the days before the computer no one expected engineers or scientists to go near a typewriter so it wasn't a skill you expected to be taught. Sometime, if i find a free program to download, i may seek to improve my typing. I tend to watch the keys more than i watch the screen. I guess learning to touch type and to watch the screen all the time would be one step to paying attention to speling and grammar.
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
"Now, if only i could type" also has room for misinterpretation. The author wishes that no-one else could type? (hence the emphasis on ...only I...)
There is only one more place to put the "only" but I'm not going to suggest it. (No, get your mind out of the gutter, I meant between "i" and "could"). Just wanted to point out that the original statement seems just as good as the alternatives.
=====================================
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RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
On a typical day, the average white-collar worker, in the US, sends and receives as many as 190 written messages, ranging from brief handwritten messages scribbled on post-it notes to formal written reports, with most messages falling somewhere in between.
According to the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers (IEEE), "Communication skills are key to every professional's career growth."
In a recent survey of over 4,000 businesses, over half of the companies reported that 55% of their employees lack writing and reading-comprehension skills, resulting in missed opportunities, lost productivity, and a thinner bottom line, due in part to poor writing skills.
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
“The Phoenicians 2000, more, 3000, 4000 years ago, somewhere around there, were able to figure out from their language a scheme of describing the sounds with symbols. It was very simple. Each sound had a corresponding symbol, and each symbol, a corresponding sound. So that when you could see what the symbols’ sounds were, you could see what the words were supposed to sound like. It’s a marvelous invention. And in the period of time things have happened, and things have gotten out of whack in the English language. Why can’t we change the spelling? Who should do it if not the professors of English? If the professors of English will complain to me that the students, who come to the universities, after all those years of study, still cannot spell “friend,” I say to them that something’s the matter with the way you spell fiend.”
Now if one switches a single digit within a calculation the resulting error may be rather significant, even catastrophic in nature. If one switches a single letter within a word or sentence I hardly doubt any meaning is lost. As engineers we tend to prioritize our attention to detail; spelling simply is not at the top of my list. If you spell flawlessly, that’s great—FIVE GOLD STARS FOR YOU! If you make an occasional spelling mistake, you’ve just made one of the most insignificant errors of your life, and it would be rather foolish for the reader to judge meaning or content based upon this fact. Understandably, some will disagree. What is most important the meaning of the word or its circumstantial spelling?
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
If you do not get five stares for this, I'll eat my hat. Shall we stasrt a petition to spell word like they sound?
Jesus is THE life,
Leonard
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
(my boldening), which exemplifies small changes making dramatic differences in meaning!
Good Luck
johnwm
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
Yes, I have. I have also noticed that members of many other professions are bad spellers - and bad writers.
I think that engineers are a special kind of people - we are curious, we are locical, we try to see structures, we are creative and we want to be concise in writing. We are also charming and witty and a complete success with the opposite sex - but that is another thing...
Now, how does an intelligent, logical and creative individual handle the confusing and illogical set of spelling rules that most languages have? Rules that have evolved over centuries and (in the English) with influences from roman, saxon, nordic, celtic, french, arab, britton and still some language roots.
The answer is; the engineer tries to find structures and logical rules that he can apply to his writing. And the result is that a writing manner that reflects what the individual thinks is correct and logical. And there you are - engineering orthography.
Good or bad? I couldn't tell. But I know that most attempts to change the spelling to be more logical have failed. The Germans have (or had?) a program going where spelling and other writing rules should be a lot easier, but it met a lot of opposition and I think that they stopped the experiment.
New languages like the Malay have very logical structures and very simple spelling rules. But my guess is that such languages also will evolve over the centuries to get more and more complicated as other languages influence them. We engineers will always be the losers... :-(
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
TTFN
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
Some words of difficult spelling and different meaning: dispatch (or despatch ?), farther and further, forgo and forego, dexterous (or dextrous?), disk and disc, forbear and forebear, jewellery (or jewelry?), speciality and specialty, licence and license, advice and advise, practice and practise, program and programme.
Comments and guidance are appreciated.
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
I don't think it's quite that simple especially for non-native English speakers. American English is, at times, difficult for folks who have iived with it all their lives as is shown by the numerous comments and questions in this forum.
I certianly don't think most of the folks asking questions in their posts are lazy, on the contrary, it demonstrates a desire and willingness to learn.
As 25362 points out -- how do you know when to use -ible or
-able. I don't know of a rule, I think it is merely a learned thing and many will make this error without realizing it.
His second part of the question is related to geographic differences i.e. program and programme.
If a person is un-wittingly making a mistake he is not being LAZY he just has no reason to check because he thinks he is doing the right thing. Until the error is pointed out this person will continue to make the same mistake.
Regards,
ietech
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
Diffferent subject!
The different spellings of words for different languages is understandable, but not what I was referring to. I'm talking about any misspelling...any language...in general.
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
-ible and -able are not foreign but english. 25362 asks for some rules to follow on this; Can you help by pointing out a rule that we can all follow? Spell check might help on this if yoy are inclined to trust it.
program and programme are geographic determined not really a mis-spelling. Spell check is no help here or in many other areas of spelling it's just a tool that sometimes can do more harm than good.
By the way the word LAZY
ietech
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
I also never picked "-ible and -able" as either English nor foreign. I guess I hit a nerve!
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
When I referred to expert it meant expertise on laziness not spelling or grammar --- maybe you also need to read the entire post and determine its true meaning.
I really wish someone could come up with a rule that addresses -ible and -able. Is this just rote memory type of spelling that any person might get wrong.
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
My apologies to EngineerDave.
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
Anyway --- you win
Good Luck
ietech
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
CajunCenturion has some great guidelines for the question about -ible and -able. see Thread1010-90651
ietech
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
My boss would review my letters before they were sent out. After reviewing one of my letters he proceeded to tell me that I was not a very good writer. He unfortunately did not go into any details of why he thought this and I did not push him for an explanation.
A few years later I ended up working for another boss who never had the same problems with my letter writing skills as my previous boss had. One day I told my new boss about my apprehensions of writing letters and proceeded to tell him my story. He happened to know my previous boss and proceeded to tell me that this person was a very poor writer and to ignore his comments about my writing. He then told me that in his opinion I was a very good writer and was very clear and to the point in my writings. (Sometimes too much to the point. That’s another story)
Moral to my story: Just because someone is your superior it does not make him or her always right. Never let someone criticize you without an explanation of those criticisms.
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
Brian
"Spellcheck is the debil!"
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
"By the way the word LAZY in reference to anyone is inappropriate in any venue."
Is that kinda in the same vein as maybe we sould not call someone inane?
BTW ctopher, i don't believe you hit a nerve -- only just grazed it a hair as in touched a nerve.
Jesus is THE life,
Leonard
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
It occurs to me that I've finally cracked this spelling problem. I don't have to spell a word "right" but consistently and sooner or later some one will enter it in a dictionary and everything will be alright.
That seems to me a great criteria for language. What is wrong today becomes right tommorow. If we return to these posts in a year or two we will find that they suddenly become dated.
This is great. I wonder if it works with mathematics?
In fact, I'm sure it must do.
JMW
www.viscoanalyser.com
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
http://www.m-w.com
Thanks for the correction,
Nathan
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
Alternatively, visit www.dictionary.com and sign up for the word of the day
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
corus
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
TTFN
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
JMW
www.viscoanalyser.com
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=76424&dict=CALD
spelled or spelt, but not spealt
TTFN
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
Cheers,
rmw
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
http://onelook.com/?w=assessment&ls=a
TTFN
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
"I am appalled to see engineers actually stating that they don't want to take the time to check spelling and grammar. That's ludicrous! Without the correct spelling and decent grammatical construction (granted none of us consistently get the grammar 100%) how can you be sure the recipient of your written communique can understand what you intend to convey?"
This does not surprise me in the slightest. We seem to expect a better ability to communicate in our prints with even more errors per print than errors per post.
I usually find three to five errors per print I have to review or redesign and yet machines somehow work and I easily have spare parts made. In most posts there is only an error or two and they manage to communicate effectively.
Given we are not English majors would it not be more prudent to upgrade our native tongue before going after our second language?
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
"I am appalled to see engineers actually stating that they don't want to take the time to check spelling and grammar. That's ludicrous! Without the correct spelling and decent grammatical construction (granted none of us consistently get the grammar 100%) how can you be sure the recipient of your written communique can understand what you intend to convey?"
This does not surprise me in the slightest. We seem to expect a better ability to communicate in our prints with even more errors per print than errors per post.
I usually find three to five errors per print I have to review or redesign and yet machines somehow work and I easily have spare parts made. In most posts there is only an error or two and they manage to communicate effectively.
Since we are not English majors, would it not be more prudent to upgrade our native tongue before going after our second language?
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
You get a star for that post. I can't believe how easy it was to read!
Brian
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
Spelling is not an essential skill to get through engineering school. It is not one strongly developed and is therefore not always one of an engineer’s stronger skills.
Engineers teach us. They too were not always strong spellers and therefore did not always correct spelling and grammar in our work.
I believe that this is changing. In my undergraduate days (1970’s) I only had, in 4 years, one assignment that required submission of an essay. I also took non-technical electives that did not have written assignments. Today I see that my son, who is an engineering pupil, has numerous written assignments. Even routine assignments sometimes require that he include a covering letter, just as he would in the real world.
What for us was a long hand design exercise is now for him a computer program usage exercise. The reports that we handed in would be sketches of the design followed by pages of calculations. Now with computer packages doing a lot of the grunt work, it leaves more time for him to produce a written report describing the design methodology and recommended course of action.
Computers and spell checkers make the production of written work much easier. I find now that my biggest problem is not a misspelled word but a correctly spelled word used incorrectly. The spell checker passes the word and I may miss something like “fiend” for “friend”.
However as the grammar-checking portion of spell checkers gets better these errors are becoming less common.
I always write postings in Word and then cut and paste to discussion forums. It allows me to type as fast as I can and then correct the spelling and grammar later. It doesn’t take any longer and makes for a better final product. I also have Outlook set up to use Word as the editor. I always try to have my spelling and grammar as good as I can get it.
While I agree that the occasional misspelling is not a critical error, a lot of my work is read by non-engineers who have the attitude, “If he cannot spell how can we trust his conclusions?”
Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng
Construction Project Management
From conception to completion
www.kitsonengineering.com
RE: Have you noticed that many engineers cannot spell?
On the other hand, using the wrong word, or using incorrect grammar can change the meaning of a sentence which can have adverse consequences.