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Nuclear?
4

Nuclear?

Nuclear?

(OP)
Nuclear?  Am I the only person having a serious problem with engineers and politicians  (head of the NRC, as ONE  example) that insist on adding a "U" in nuclear?  'Nuculer', 'supposably', 'alunium', etc. --- just drives me nuts!  

Rod  

RE: Nuclear?

No, you are not the only one.  The President of the United States of America says "nuculer" and it drives me crazy too.

Regards,

Cory

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RE: Nuclear?

But your current President says so many stupid or incorrect things that there are web sites solely on that subject.

Rather scarey to think he has control of a button that could destroy the world. Just think how he might have reacted during the missiles in Cuba chrisis, so I guess miss pronunciations are a relativly minor concern.

Regards
pat

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RE: Nuclear?

On the other hand, the constitution does spare us the excitement of new governor of California becoming president (unless they change the constitution). I'll be back!

RE: Nuclear?

Jimmy Carter was a Nuclear Engineer and he pronounced it the same way GW does - is it a southern thing or a politician thing?  When I was a Nuc (most of 30 years ago) we spelled it like that, today it is mostly "Nuke".  I keep thinking the field is going to die so I can stop hearing the name of it butchered.

David

RE: Nuclear?

Roosevelt had his New Deal. George W has his New Clear Act. And I am afraid it will not end there...

RE: Nuclear?

I heard George Bush misprounounce it but I never heard Jimmy Carter mispronounce it. Are you kidding me?

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RE: Nuclear?

see:
http://www.theworld.org/whoknows/nuclear.shtml

TTFN

RE: Nuclear?

I downloaded the mp3 and have it playing in-loop mode right now.  Jimmy carter saying "nuclear program" over and over.

If anything he is guilty of being light on his "l"

Not nearly as irritating as nucular.

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RE: Nuclear?

I couldn't get it to play, but I'll take you all's word for it.  My memory must be getting fuzzy (Jimmy annoyed me in oh so many ways, I just thought he included this one).

David

RE: Nuclear?

I right-clicked to save the file (mp3) on my hard drive. Then when I double-click it, it launches windows media player.

It's clear that some people including the author of that web page thought Jimmy's mispronunciation was noteworthy.

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RE: Nuclear?

Are there any more details on the head of the NRC mispronoucning it?

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RE: Nuclear?

The English language itself came into being through rampant "mispronunciation". Since spelling became somewhat standardized, word pronunciation has continued to diverge from the established norm, to the point where the spelling of some words seemed nonsensical to many Americans in the early nineteenth century, and the American spelling movement, spearheaded by Franklin and Webster, flowered for an all too brief period. There have always been wide variations in the way that words which are somewhat alien to the Anglo-Saxon tongue have been pronounced, and the traditional way that the English decided on a "standard" pronunciation for a particular word was to define it to be the way the king spoke it, which gave rise to the expression "the king's English". Now since US English is today generally regarded as the standard, and the US president is, to all intents and purposes, a sort of short term ‘elected monarch”, I would suggest that we all adopt George's pronunciation. Does anyone know how John Kerry pronounces “nuclear”? (I’m just thinking ahead).

RE: Nuclear?

It is clear what the political leanings of this group are (at least in 2 of the posts).

I have been a firm supporter of all Republicans including George Bush, up until the time of Iraq invasion.  I never thought I would prefer a democratic president but thanks to George, the once inconceivable is now conceivable.

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RE: Nuclear?

Wasn't it that the much vilified Viet Nam conflict was initiated by democratic presidents and stopped by Richard Nixon, a republican ?

RE: Nuclear?

Is all this poltical stuff getting boringly off-topic?

Good Luck
johnwm

RE: Nuclear?

(OP)
Actually, 25362, the "much vilified Viet Nam conflict" was initiated by Dwight Eisenhower, escalated by JFK, LBJ and, Nixon(in the beginning of his term).  I was in college in the beginning and I assure you there was bi partisan blame.
I never intended my question to digress to politics. I am sure jimbo did not intend this new forum to be political or partisan in any way.

Rod

RE: Nuclear?

Since this forum was intended to provoke discussion amongst potentially opposed viewpoints, its very nature is potentially partisan.

TTFN

RE: Nuclear?

2
Partisan as partains to language/grammar skills is wholly different than partisan with respect to politics.

Let's get back on topic here.

RE: Nuclear?

Let's get back on topic here?

OK I'm game.  Just last night, as I was visiting one of my very best friends whom I met at college (or should that be in college?), AGAIN used the "U" version.  What gets me is that they say it so distinctly as if that is truely the way it should be pronounced and just go on talking like everything is ok.  Every time he does it, I half expect him to stop in mid-sentence and say, "oh - I mean nuc'l-E-ar."  But nooo, it never happens.  So I just accept him as he is even though he went on to be graduated from MIT with a masters in metallurgical engineering.  He also was a spelling misfit to the degree that he carried a pocket spelling dictionary in college.  So spelling apparently is not a good incicator of intellilgence.  For example I tend to be a pretty good speller but short in the smarts area.

Jesus is THE life,
Leonard

RE: Nuclear?

When I was at school, if you didn't get things right, they made you smart in the shorts area.

RE: Nuclear?

jmw
Hey watch it!  I might go nucUler on yer.

Actually it was that way when I was in school so you must be an old duffer too.

Jesus is THE life,
Leonard

RE: Nuclear?

I begin to feel that way.
Strange to think that by todays rules half the teaching staff would be jailed and that by todays standard of eductaion half of them should be jailed.

I went to school before the advent of multiple choice questions, phonetic spelling (you think my spellings bad mow, just what kind of spelling do todays kids have?)but after greek latin and classics figured so heavily.

I just did some college courses and was staggered by the approach. The teachers have practically to write the papers for you if there is a chance you might fail (those that understand the course well enough themselves).

RE: Nuclear?

One word we all mispronounce is "Forte". The true pronunciation is derived from the french "Fort" and should be pronounced as one syllable. But it has become the standard to pronounce it for-tay and if anyone were to pronounce it correctly they would be corrected in a New York minute.

RE: Nuclear?

Doesn't it depend on which "forte" you're using?  If you are talking about someone strengths, I think the correct pronunciation is "for-tay".  If you're talking about strong part of a blade, isn't "fort" correct?  I am fairly sure that if you talking about forte in the musical sense, then "for-tay" is the correct pronunciation.  

Or is this another case where it doesn't really matter anymore, do whatever pleases you?

RE: Nuclear?

for·te1    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (for'ta, fort, frt)
n.
Something in which a person excels.
The strong part of a sword blade, between the middle and the hilt.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[French fort, from Old French, strong, from Latin fortis. See fort.]
Synonyms: forte, specialty, thing
These nouns denote something at which a person is particularly skilled: Writing fiction is her forte. The theater is his m?ier. The professor's specialty was the study of ancient languages. Mountain climbing is really my thing.
Usage Note: The word forte, coming from French fort, should properly be pronounced with one syllable, like the English word fort. Common usage, however, prefers the two-syllable pronunciation, (for'ta), which has been influenced possibly by the music term forte borrowed from Italian. In a recent survey a strong majority of the Usage Panel, 74 percent, preferred the two-syllable pronunciation. The result is a delicate situation; speakers who are aware of the origin of the word may wish to continue to pronounce it as one syllable but at an increasing risk of puzzling their listeners.

[

RE: Nuclear?

Oh boy!! Dueling definitions

"Main Entry: 1forte  
Pronunciation: 'fOrt, 'fort; 2 is often 'for-"tA or for-'tA or 'for-tE
Function: noun
Etymology: French fort, from fort, adjective, strong
1 : the part of a sword or foil blade that is between the middle and the hilt and that is the strongest part of the blade
2 : one's strong point
usage In forte we have a word derived from French that in its "strong point" sense has no entirely satisfactory pronunciation. Usage writers have denigrated \'for-"tA\ and \'for-tE\ because they reflect the influence of the Italian-derived 2forte. Their recommended pronunciation \'fort\, however, does not exactly reflect French either: the French would write the word le fort and would rhyme it with English for. So you can take your choice, knowing that someone somewhere will dislike whichever variant you choose. All are standard, however. In British English \'fo-"tA\ and \'fot\ predominate; \'for-"tA\ and \for-'tA\ are probably the most frequent pronunciations in American English. "

From http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary

TTFN

RE: Nuclear?

Interesting stuff. I was never aware for-tay was not 100% correct but now I'm better informed.

I don't trust that last reference which went a step further to say the french pronunciation of forte would be "for".

My memory of french is that
fort would be pronounced for
forte would be pronounced fort

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RE: Nuclear?

TwnB I liked the Heineken remover the best.
Now, while they may have a point about Mannaise being the wrong pronounciation of mayonnaise, the version they prefer is not correct to the original either, though when it became Mayonnaise and not Mahonaise is moot. And i guess we could have a debate about how to say Mahon, the port after which this source was named by his chef to celebrate the victory of French Admiral Richleau over the British navy in the Napoleonic wars. (The non-opposing British Admiral was shot).

RE: Nuclear?

Is this where the Gaelic term "Pog Mahon" came from I wonder?

("Pog Mahon" means "Kiss my A**" in Ireland)

RE: Nuclear?

jmw: Are you sure you have correctly spelled "Richleau" ? I can't find any reference to this episode on the web. In any case, it was probably just target practice for the final wipe out of the French navy at Trafalgar. And as far as I'm concerned, "French Admiral" is an oxymoron. For the benefit of any French guys reading this, I'm just kidding. But then again, there's many a true word spoken in jest!

RE: Nuclear?

TwnB,

Great Link! However, I must take exception to one entry:

"Ostraya / Australia": This pronunciation particularly bothers Australians themselves, most of whom can manage the [l] quite easily, thank you.

The most blatant example of pronouncing it "Ostraya / Ostrayans" that I have ever heard is an infamous Australian politician, Pauline Hanson. (Australians will know who I am talking about. I hope that nobody else has ever heard of her - but I fear the worst!)

(Actually, now that I think about it, her weird brand of xenophobic politics always makes my blood boil, so the statement that "This pronunciation particularly bothers Australians themselves" is quite accurate after all!)

RE: Nuclear?

Julian

I live in Taiwan which I suppose is close enough proximity to Ostraya to have her every word printed in the local papers. I am originally from the U.S. where we have our fair share of public embarassments so I do sympathize with you.

RE: Nuclear?

I have just sat through some video presentations on a CD and become increasingly irked by the pronounciation of the word "sachet".
Now my prefera/ence is "sashay",
The presenter says satchet to rhyme with hatchet (assuming you don't pronounce that hashay).

RE: Nuclear?

Thanks for the correction, IRstuff. The Napoleonic war reference is my error; it must have been the war imediately prior to that or rather, leading into the 7 years war.

Apart from a break of play while they had their revolution, France and Britain seem to have been almost permanently locked in warfare.
It takes some keeping it all straight.
Napoleon and his relatives proved a bit of a pain for 60 or 70 years.

Incidentally, in its internet manifestation, your referenced encyclopedia is a mess of typos and or spelling mistakes. According to many in this forum, perhaps we should treat their history with suspicion?

RE: Nuclear?

I like that list of mispronounced words.

Lots of funny stuff in there.

Glad to see that they identify the pronunciation of Forte as fort, not for.

I learned the following (not in the category of funny stuff):
spitting image should be spit and image
card shark should be card sharp

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RE: Nuclear?

I'm confused about this "New York Minute" expression.

I'd always heard of a "New York Second".

That is: that fraction of a second it takes from the time the light turns green, to the time the cabby blows his horn.

Where does a "NYM" come in?

Rerig

RE: Nuclear?

I've got a boss that pronounces the beginning of the word Miscellaneous, as if he were pronouncing the word Michelin (As in tires).  Drives me crazy.

But the all time favorite is people who say aselleration instead of acceleration.

RE: Nuclear?

I had a thermo teacher who would say that various equipment in a steam plant "essosts to the assmosphere".  Took a while to decypher that one.

David

RE: Nuclear?

A little OT, but hey, isn't most of this thread.

On my route to work I pass a sign which says (something like) "Welcome to Manchester: A nuclear-free city". One could pick all sorts of holes in that one, but the greatest irony is that 100 metres up the road is a construction site at the Christie Hospital (A world wide leader in cancer research). The billboards at the site proudly say that they are building two new super-dooper high-power linear accelerators for drug development research.
Hmmm.

--
Dr Michael F Platten

RE: Nuclear?

Not to forget the recipient of the Lenin Prize, reported in Pravda (English edn) as being for 'unclear physics'

RE: Nuclear?

Quote (MikeyP):

"Welcome to Manchester: A nuclear-free city". One could pick all sorts of holes in that one, but the greatest irony is that 100 metres up the road is a construction site at the Christie Hospital (A world wide leader in cancer research). The billboards at the site proudly say that they are building two new super-dooper high-power linear accelerators for drug development research.

Sounds like that city is as nuclear-free as the coffee is chemical-free.

If truely nuclear-free or a chemical-free, it would be called a void. or a vacuum.   [just finding myself on my favorite hobby-horse ]

RE: Nuclear?

This topic is one of my biggest pet peeves. I dearly despise the mispronunciation of certain standard words. Nuclear is one, as are Realty, Realtor and Jewelry. (mispronounced as Noo-Kee-Ler, Ree-Luh-Tee, Ree-Luh-Ter, and Joo-Luh-Ree). Those items are like fingernails on a blackboard for me. My wife can't stand it when I watch TV and someone mispronounces one of those words. They annot me so much, I'll correct the tv. I can't stand it.

Ok, mini-rant over. Very interesting discussion here.

Byron T.

RE: Nuclear?

Not that it should cause fisticuffs or anything like that, but that's the reality of not being king of the world.

Fundamentally, it should make no difference than if someone referred to a fire as "far."

That's how languages do and should evolve and grow.  A language that doesn't change is soon to be a dead language.  

TTFN

RE: Nuclear?

Language is about conventions, e.g., symbols that represent ideas and constructs.  If everyone decided tomorrow that San Onofre should be refered to as a fuzzlebutt plant, then so be it.  What's the hangup?  

We're burning calories nitpicking a symbol, rather than creating new ideas.  The French have been the butt of many jokes precisely because we can laugh at their preoccupation about the "purity of the language" and the "language police" that have banned "le hamburger" because it's not a French word.  

Have we become so decadent as to imitate the French again?

God help us all if that's the case.

TTFN

RE: Nuclear?

IRstuff,
So are you suggesting that we should accept nucUler and realAtor as the evolved versions in our living language?

Jesus is THE life,
Leonard

RE: Nuclear?

I think that life is too short to be futzing with correcting the pronunciation of people who don't give a hoot, particularly when there are probably hundreds of millions of people mis-pronouncing words on a daily basis.

There's a line from a Jim Croce song, "you don't spit into the wind."

TTFN

RE: Nuclear?

IRstuff

There is no problem with a language evolving, as long as (to take your example) everyone decides tomorrow to call San Onofre a fuzzlebutt plant. The point made in this thread is that 'anyone, at any time' has replaced 'everyone, tomorrow' with the lame augument that language is for the people, by the people and should therefore evolve. The situation is getting rapidly worse, overseas people have known for a while that English spelling and pronounciation is lousy, now even the natives are getting worried, as this thread shows !
Signed, a decadent Frenchman who has to relearn the English language every day because someone (or anyone ?) decides to change it.

RE: Nuclear?

Ax  = ask
Well Ah ax you, is thayt aycceptable?

JMW
www.viscoanalyser.com
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RE: Nuclear?

Yates,

Vive la differance! (Probably very badly mis-spelled). It hard for me to get too worried if the evolution of the English language confuses the French. It is about to the point that Brits and Americans are speaking two different languages as it is!

RE: Nuclear?

JMW:
That is another of my regional annoyances. The people here (southeast Louisiana/New Orleans area) think it's "cute" to say ax instead of ask. Once you get used to it, you don't even really notice it. That doesn't make it any better though.  

and sms:
Two countries separated by a common language. Reminds me of the scene in Austin Powers 3 where Austin and his father were speaking in "true english", all the current slang. I didn't understand a word.

RE: Nuclear?

Most of the Austin Powers conversation was cockney rhyming slang where the spoken phrase is chosen purely because it rhymes with the actual phrase.

Examples include plates of meat = feet, apples and pears = stairs. This is obfuscated enough, but certain slang words leave out the rhyming link altogether such as the word barnet (I think it's spelt right, possibly someone in England can correct me) to mean a hairstyle. This comes from Barnet Hatch (A place in England AFAIK), the second word of which rhymes with thatch referring to the practice of roofing houses using straw - which looks a bit like hair. Pretty twisted.

Also to Twnb further up this thread, the phrase he/she wrote as pog mahon is actually spelt as Póg mo thóin. The accent over the 'o' means it is pronounced as a long 'o' (as in omega). Phonetically it sounds more like powg (o as in omega) mo (o as in mother) hone (o as in omega).

In Ireland Mahon is a common enough surname, and to my knowledge has no link with the Irish phrase.

RE: Nuclear?

"Barnet" comes from "Barnet Fair" - "Hair". Barnet is a now a part of north London but was originally a town in its own right. "Barnet Fair" was a regular market in this town.

In the Austin Powers scene, the last phrase "S**t on a turtle." is just meaningless AFAIK.

M

--
Dr Michael F Platten

RE: Nuclear?

I reckon it's probably meaningless alright, though Roger's Profanisarus (Off Viz.co.uk - Probably the closest the UK has to Mad magazine, though a lot more explicit)does have a few entries relating to Turtles...

RE: Nuclear?

Ok, I saw this in another post today and it is yet another pet peeve (Darn those peeves sure do eat a lot).

The phrase 24/7/365 just annoys me from a units standpoint. (hrs/day)(days/week)(days/year) gives you hr*day/week*year. Come on, thats just not right. This drives me nuts. I realize it has a better sound to it than 24/7/52 but I still hate it.

Does this bother anyone else or am I being unreasonable?

RE: Nuclear?

should just be 24/365

RE: Nuclear?

That leaves us February 29 to rest.

RE: Nuclear?

Hmm, 24/365.25?

RE: Nuclear?

No rest for the mathematicians.

Jesus is THE life,
Leonard

RE: Nuclear?

To be more precise, it would be 24/365.2425.

RE: Nuclear?

Cajun,
Did you get that .2425 using your nucular clock?

Jesus is THE life,
Leonard

RE: Nuclear?

No, that number has been around for quite a while.  

RE: Nuclear?

The .2425 is why we skipped the leap year in 2000 (which was supposed to be the dreaded February 29th bug that no one ever heard about).

**If you are not part of the solution, then you are part of the precipitate.**

RE: Nuclear?

I wonder what the downside would be, if we could shift our orbit enough for a rational calender?

JMW
www.viscoanalyser.com
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RE: Nuclear?

Global Warming.

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