Shop drawing dimensions
Shop drawing dimensions
(OP)
I usually put a note on shop drawings for the architect and the contractor to verify all dimensions. Especially plan dimensions for example on base plate and steel shop drawings. This is because I don't always know if a dimension has been changed and I was not notified of it.
If there is a dimension on the shop drawings that contradicts the structural plan and architectural plan dimensions that you have been given, what is the proper way to handle it?
1)Write in the dimension the shop drawings you have based your design on and is correct as far as you know, and put a note for the architect to verify.
2) Circle the dimension and put a note for the architect to verify.
If there is a dimension on the shop drawings that contradicts the structural plan and architectural plan dimensions that you have been given, what is the proper way to handle it?
1)Write in the dimension the shop drawings you have based your design on and is correct as far as you know, and put a note for the architect to verify.
2) Circle the dimension and put a note for the architect to verify.






RE: Shop drawing dimensions
I like to give the contractor (architect, in your case) a number to work off of. He can then figure out why there is a discrepancy.
RE: Shop drawing dimensions
I am actually afraid this may have already happened.
RE: Shop drawing dimensions
Some Fabricators have notes on the shop drawings that state something about all unanswered "verifies" are assumed correct and they accept no responsibility for field work as a result of this. The guy that owns the company I worked for thought that this was BS and should be handled more as a team effort and not pointing fingers at one another at the end of the project. I still think that was way cool.
Anyway, bottom line is, as long as you asked for it to be verified, you have a paper trail covering your butt. I never let an architect detail a baseplate because they are typically unaware of the oversize hole requirements.
RE: Shop drawing dimensions
RE: Shop drawing dimensions
Most of my career has been on the CONTRACTOR side of the project and most of my time has been spent trying to get the ARCHITECT to verify his design dimensions. I never had a problem taking responsibility for verifing field dimensions, the problem is getting the DESIGNER to at least put SOME dimensions on their drawings. It has gotten so bad that some structural's aren't putting dimension on their drawings at all! They have a note to "See Architectural Drawings for Dimensions". THIS IS DESIGN?
I like haynewp's solution, put as much information as possible on the drawing and ask BOTH the ARCHITECT and the CONTRACTOR to verify it. It is supposed to be a TEAM effort. Once you start trying to CYA, the system breaks down and problems really start. After all, the designer has to figure the dimensions to finalize the design in the first place, why hide that information from everyone else involved in the construction project?
Bye the way, once the screw ups start, there is usually enough blame to go around. I always try to head them off before they happen, it is a lot cheaper.
RE: Shop drawing dimensions
RE: Shop drawing dimensions
RE: Shop drawing dimensions
RE: Shop drawing dimensions
I am also frustrated that nobody wants to be a team anymore.
Dinosaur
RE: Shop drawing dimensions
RE: Shop drawing dimensions
Thanks for the backup and your explaination. I understand your problem, however, I can't say that I agree with the practice at all. The additional time this causes everyone else in the construction process is enormous!
The bid take-off time is increased 25%-50%, the chance for field layout errors, as noted, is increased substantially, the amount of time required for those preparing shop drawings is also increased. Just the added time you spend on the phone working out the problems is worth something too.
You solved the problem your in-house architects created by pushing it on the backs of everyone else down the line. I think you should have a serious talk about office operations with your architects, before contractors start raising your bid prices to cover the added time.
Just my two cents, hope you get back on the team!
RE: Shop drawing dimensions
In any case i believe the question is with regards to dimensioning on structural drawings. we try to provide all necessary dimensions on our drawings, they don't go out the door otherwise. Architects change things, such is life, and its really just a business matter between us.
RE: Shop drawing dimensions
If the grid or other dimensions are modified after drawings are issued for construction and the Engineer is unaware of it, what's shown on the struc drawings may not work anymore, and this may not be discovered until the shop drawings have been submitted. This could be true even for something as simple as a change in an edge of slab dimension. Uncoordinated dimensional changes also could be missed during the shop drawing review. If that happens, then I wonder if with no indicated dims on the struc drawings there is a potential liability issue.
Contractors who are fabricating and erecting a building need to look at both architectural and structural drawings as they do their work, but IMHO in the end, they should be able to to do the vast majority of the structural work just by looking at the structural drawings. At least that is the ideal.
Having said all that, the stated reasons for omitting dimensions (Rapid repeated changes on the architectural side) are understandable. If some of your architectural clients have a permanent habit of doing this, talk with them about it. If the changes are not driven directly by the Architect's clients then maybe the Architects can modify how they work. Otherwise, perhaps its time for the Engineer to do some marketing and find other clients. (Easy to say, I know).