What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
(OP)
Hi
The maker of the valves suggests using a bronze based seat, what are the best bronze based material to use?
What about copper based materials for valve seats?
Thanks.
The maker of the valves suggests using a bronze based seat, what are the best bronze based material to use?
What about copper based materials for valve seats?
Thanks.





RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
http://www.copper.org
RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
What I am looking for is; do they use a special grade of nickel/bronze for valve seats?
RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
As I mentioned in my email, beryllium-copper alloys are used for high performance engines. One such example was the FO110J 3.0L V10 produced by Ilmor/Mercedes for the 2000 F1 World Championship. Some aspects of this engine, including confirmation that beryllium-copper was used for the valve seat and valve guides, were described in SAE Technical Paper 2002-01-3359. You may want to perform a keyword search for SAE Technical Papers to see if you can find more information on specific alloys, valve seat suppliers, etc.
RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
Also I can get ready made Ampco 45(Bronze/Aluminium) seats, are they suitable for titanium?
Here is the info for Trojan:
http://www.columbiametals.co.uk/trojanproperties.htm
RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
Thanks in advance.
WH
RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
http://www.brushwellman.com/
RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
Its tricky to drill though.
RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
I contacted Colimbia Metals directly and am in the process of placing an order to machine some test parts. Thanks.
I am curious as to just what you mean by, "It's tricky to drill though."
WH
RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
For the seats, I first tried to do the drilling on a manual machine, and then just bore out with a boring bar on the cnc, however after a short while, the manual drill was blunt as well, so I got out our gundrill, and did the whole operation in the cnc, the gundrill worked really well here, I have not yet taken pics of these.
RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
Thanks for the reply. We have some sample material coming from Columbia Metals. We are going to do seats and guides also.
Your parts look nice.
WH
RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
Were you successful in your prototypes?
RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
We received the test material from Columbia Metals but have not machined any test parts yet. These parts are part of a larger project we are doing for a customer. Soon I hope.
WH
RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
They're used extensively on race engines because, in spite of their poor wear characteristics, they conduct heat away from the valve stem much better than do iron guides. Race engines are torn-down frequently, so high wear rates are acceptable.
That's where the beryllium-copper guides really shine: they have a higher thermal conductivity than bronze alloys, and a hardness equivalent to that of cast iron.
It requires different machining techniques, but these are well-understood, and I'm not sure that machining the stuff releases any "free" beryllium, so the health hazards are minimal - at least, I'm still alive, having done it off and on since 1975.
- R
RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
Manganese have better performance with acceptable wear, the material is also cheap, we will be doing a run 30 or so sets of Manganese guides soon.
Beryllium/copper is very expensive, if you wont be running titanium valves, don't bother. Same with trojan, it is very expensive, the material cost alone is about as much as you would pay for a set of manganese guides, but look at it as a replacement for beryllium/copper with better properties, no toxic elements, and slightly cheaper. Drilling it is tricky but a carbide drill will solve that, but it machines really nice, the above pictures doesn't really do it justice. These are better:
RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
The picture above show some very nice work. What are they going in and why did you choose the given material?
RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
http://www.olinbrass.com/olinbecu.html
RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
Hardness:
TROJAN : HB200Minimum 230-270Typical
Copper Beryllium : HB180
Colsibro : HB200
COLSIBRO is a Copper Nickel Silicon alloy which offers a remarkable blend of properties at a non exotic price.
RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
Colsibro is the cheapest afaik, then Trojan, then CB I think trojan and CB are about the same, they don't differ by that much in raw form. Colsibro is not compatible with titanium though. And if your head porter doesn't have a respirator, go with trojan.
RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
Has anybody heard of this material, what its composition is, and where possibly to get it?
I cannot believe that GM would be using BeCu due to toxicity issues in their manifacturing plants, and these heads are assembled by GM in a Wixom facility (requiring valve lapping).
RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
In another thread, I believe you mentioned that you had Ti valves made in Russia. Did you have to pay a duty on these parts since the Bush administration imposed a protective tariff on Russian Ti? I think this tariff went into effect in November of 2004.
Also could you comment on the quality of the valves you had made in Russia?
Thanks in advance.
Will
RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
I am not in the US, but they were sent there first of to the head porter, there were no import duties on the valves, but it was before November 2004. The quality is very good.
Have a look at the site : http://www.titanium-valve.com/english/index.htm, the price with shipping was around $685 for a set of polished valves, but you should only have them polish the inlet ones. That price includes shipping via UPS which was $100.
Cheers.
RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
Thank you for the information.
Will
RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
jjam
www.freedomalloysusa.com
RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
Any thoughts on the thermal conductivity of CuBe as compared to steel when used as a valve seat?
Also is it possible to run an inconl valve on a CuB seat?
RE: What valve seat material for Titanium Valves.
CuBe alloys are used in plastic mold applications due to the excellent thermal condustivity and extremely wear resistant surface. The cycle times in a CuBe mold will be much faster than in a comparable steel mold. The thermal conductivity of CuBe is far superior to steel. Depending on the alloy of CuBe, it can be 3 to 10 times higher.
An Inconel valve should not be a problem at all. CuBe alloys and virtually all nickel based alloys that I have run across work well together. Unlike many other metals, CuBe also works well when run with or against itself. 2% CuBe alloys have rotational bearing type galling values around 100KSI when run against other 2% CuBe alloys. That is extreme to say the least. When you compare these numbers to other typically high performance bushing alloys,like the various Ampco's, you find that the CuBe alloy properties are often 2-3 times better.
2% CuBe alloys will hold peak properties in intermittent or continuous use at up to 625F. --.5% alloys will hold to about 800-850F. The properties of the two alloys though are very different. 2% alloys are typically HRc40 with 30% IACS electrical conductivity vs. .5% alloys with HRb 95 and 50% IACS conductivity.
If you need something even more robust, we make a NiBe alloy that will maintain HRc 50-55 at 900-1000F continuous.
Although I have seen the various NON-beryllium alloy ads touting better properties than CuBe, like Trojan, it is just not true. I have no idea where they get their CuBe property data, but it is not representative of CuBe's best. If it were possible, my company would be out of business. Beryllium containing alloys continue because they can and do perform in critical and severe duty applications where other metals will not. IF there were a lower cost and more traditional material that could perform like CuBe, there would be no market for CuBe. This is definitely not the case. Don't believe everything you read in metal ads.
jjam